4 ms·

Ah, that makes sense. Don't know how I feel about being uniquely identified though. I thought they were just gathering things like movements and gender.

by darxius 13y ago

superuser2 13y ago
You can't gather movements without a unique identifier. How would know which points belong to which path? The MAC address doesn't lead to your name, address, credit card, or anything. It's just how they tell one phone from another.
- edmond_dantes 13y ago
  Until that information is associated with you when you pass through the POS and pay for your goods.
  - superuser2 13y ago
    Electronic payments are an entirely separate issue and there ought to be strong legal requirements preventing retailers and credit card companies from sharing data about people's purchases. Or, better yet, anonymous electronic cash like BitCoin. While the invasiveness of a database of purchases linked to identities by credit card is substantial, it is orthogonal to the collection of how the user walked through the store. That hardly adds any additional value for anyone when it's just one datapoint. It's completely useless to insurance companies, maybe useful in aggregate to other stores. The point is to more effectively lay out displays to drive impulse purchases from people in aggregate. It would not be in Target's interest to let Wal-Mart know what the traffic pattern is in a Target. If you are not already disclosing the fact that you shopped at the store by using a credit card, then there is nothing to tie your MAC address to your identity.
nairteashop 13y ago
Only your device MAC is collected though, to track things like repeat visits, so I think it's similar to how websites track your IP. There is no "database" today to associate the device MAC back to any personal information.
- bigiain 13y ago
  "There is no "database" today to associate the device MAC back to any personal information." You can _say_ that, but the marketing-hacker in me is already thinking about how to hook the wifi MAC address to the credit card payment database, and how to run in-store specials "Like us on Facebook via our free wifi to get $super-special-deal!" I think saying "There is no "database" today … " is disingenuous at best. I would bet with 100% certainty that someone, somewhere, has been collecting and correlating MAC addresses and individual's identities, and is almost certainly selling access to exactly that database. (Cynical thought, what're the chances that Apple aren't, right now, already doing realtime lookups on the purchase histories of the original owners of wifi capable iOS device that arrive in their stores with the wifi switched on?)
  - nairteashop 13y ago
    I should've clarified - there is no database today that is accessible to retailers and/or tracking software vendors. Device vendors like Apple certainly have a database that maps device UDID/MAC to your personal information, but they are very serious about protecting it. Today :)
- pbsdp 13y ago
  Sure there is. Remember how your iPhone had to be activated with the carrier? Or how all that analytics software would use the MAC either as a UDID, or to derive one?
- bilbo0s 13y ago
  Actually, there is. In the better retail video systems, video is time-synced with the registers. I'm not sure how many are doing it right now, but indoor tracking and indoor mapping people would be foolish to not sync their data with the registers as well. Put another way... It is a trivial matter to know that it was your phone at the register when your debit card was used. But they would still only have MAC address and charge, credit or debit card info. Of course... that may be all they need.
  - cbhl 13y ago

Ah, that makes sense. Don't know how I feel about being uniquely identified though. I thought they were just gathering things like movements and gender.

by darxius 13y ago

Ah, that makes sense. Don't know how I feel about being uniquely identified though. I thought they were just gathering things like movements and gender.

superuser2 13y ago

You can't gather movements without a unique identifier. How would know which points belong to which path? The MAC address doesn't lead to your name, address, credit card, or anything. It's just how they tell one phone from another.

edmond_dantes 13y ago
Until that information is associated with you when you pass through the POS and pay for your goods.
- superuser2 13y ago
  Electronic payments are an entirely separate issue and there ought to be strong legal requirements preventing retailers and credit card companies from sharing data about people's purchases. Or, better yet, anonymous electronic cash like BitCoin. While the invasiveness of a database of purchases linked to identities by credit card is substantial, it is orthogonal to the collection of how the user walked through the store. That hardly adds any additional value for anyone when it's just one datapoint. It's completely useless to insurance companies, maybe useful in aggregate to other stores. The point is to more effectively lay out displays to drive impulse purchases from people in aggregate. It would not be in Target's interest to let Wal-Mart know what the traffic pattern is in a Target. If you are not already disclosing the fact that you shopped at the store by using a credit card, then there is nothing to tie your MAC address to your identity.

nairteashop 13y ago

Only your device MAC is collected though, to track things like repeat visits, so I think it's similar to how websites track your IP. There is no "database" today to associate the device MAC back to any personal information.

bigiain 13y ago
"There is no "database" today to associate the device MAC back to any personal information." You can _say_ that, but the marketing-hacker in me is already thinking about how to hook the wifi MAC address to the credit card payment database, and how to run in-store specials "Like us on Facebook via our free wifi to get $super-special-deal!" I think saying "There is no "database" today … " is disingenuous at best. I would bet with 100% certainty that someone, somewhere, has been collecting and correlating MAC addresses and individual's identities, and is almost certainly selling access to exactly that database. (Cynical thought, what're the chances that Apple aren't, right now, already doing realtime lookups on the purchase histories of the original owners of wifi capable iOS device that arrive in their stores with the wifi switched on?)
- nairteashop 13y ago
  I should've clarified - there is no database today that is accessible to retailers and/or tracking software vendors. Device vendors like Apple certainly have a database that maps device UDID/MAC to your personal information, but they are very serious about protecting it. Today :)
pbsdp 13y ago
Sure there is. Remember how your iPhone had to be activated with the carrier? Or how all that analytics software would use the MAC either as a UDID, or to derive one?
bilbo0s 13y ago
Actually, there is. In the better retail video systems, video is time-synced with the registers. I'm not sure how many are doing it right now, but indoor tracking and indoor mapping people would be foolish to not sync their data with the registers as well. Put another way... It is a trivial matter to know that it was your phone at the register when your debit card was used. But they would still only have MAC address and charge, credit or debit card info. Of course... that may be all they need.
- cbhl 13y ago