6 ms·

A few things formal institution graduates don't realize: When you say "you're more or less paying for the piece of paper" you're taking it for granted (unless

by Ixiaus 13y ago

A few things formal institution graduates don't realize: When you say "you're more or less paying for the piece of paper" you're taking it for granted (unless you went to a shitty school). As an Autodidact in Mathematics, programming, compsci, and psychology with nothing but a GED; you underestimate the value of rigorous environments. Learning fast is also not the point. Learning thoroughly is the point. Thorough and rigorous learning is really fucking hard when an Autodidact. University is an environment that allusively inspires rigor. You're surrounded by peers doing the same thing you are; you have access to instructors that are (sometimes) the best in their field; and you have access to facilities (even as an alum!) that are prohibitively expensive for non-matriculating learners. Autodidacism is hard because you have to hold yourself to extremely high standards, you have to play with your own psychology to control inspiration and perseverance (you aren't accountable to anyone!!). So even if you learn on your own now after college you still will have a number tools at your disposal that you would've had to develop on your own without college. Yes, I learn far better on my own too, but do not discount the enormous opportunity you had by going through college.

jmduke 13y ago
I completely agree with everything you said, particularly the difference between learning quickly and learning thoroughly. I'd love to hear more about your autodidacism. Do you mind explaining your learning process a bit more?
- ericabiz 13y ago
  I'm not Ixiaus but I am his best friend and co-founder (and totally going to give him hell in the office tomorrow for posting on HN when he's supposed to be on vacation. ;) Anyway, he gets up at 6AM every day and runs through a spaced repetition routine. He's written about his process here: http://ixmat.us/articles/2012-12-01_usable-org-drill.html http://ixmat.us/articles/2012-12-01_usable-org-drill.html
- Ixiaus 13y ago
  I'll write a blog post about it. It also includes a a designed curriculum, strict reading schedule, discipline in doing exercises, creativity in self evaluation, self awareness of strengths and weaknesses and tailoring the curriculum to them. I have a twenty page writing piece on my processes and philosophy that I will finalize. It appears there is a desire for it and I would love to interact with others sharing my journey! Send me a message at my email in my profile!
dizzystar 13y ago
Couldn't have said it better myself, as an autodidact of CS, math, and music, this is my thoughts. Managing your own time and learning curve is really hard. As an autodidact, I can just not do it because I am tired, busy, not in the mood, or whatever. The second thing that college grads don't get the value of is that they are able to learn by some proven path. This path is not etched out so well and requires considerable research, self-assessment, and decisions that aren't comfortable at all times. You could spend weeks a) researching what is next and b) attempting things you aren't ready for and blowing off a few weeks on something you gained nothing from because that knowledge base just wasn't there. There are many other little things you learn in college that are at times quite difficult to learn about on your own. Despite the apparent "free" education, nothing is free and there are things that you simply cannot learn or discover on your own. Guidance, whether from an instructor or a mentor, is very important when you are learning. Trust me, I'd gladly shovel out money for good guidance. You also live a lonely life and there is no one you can call up who is also struggling or trade information with. There is no way to really test yourself so you know you are correct and where you went wrong. Self-testing is either very hard or impossible in many instances, and that little epiphany you get from a red circle isn't available for you. It takes a certain amount of brutal honesty to get it right, and then you still don't always know. This is frustrating for me. The final piece is the double-edged sword of readiness. As a grad, you have proved to someone or some institution that you have mastered the material and are ready to work, whereas when you are an autodidact, you simply won't have the confidence to face an interviewer unless you are something like 10x better than any bachelor-holder, and sometimes masters-holder, that walks through the door. The time you lose on getting better and better -- plus the massive confidence boost -- is offset in spades by a decent education.
- unimpressive 13y ago
  >You also live a lonely life and there is no one you can call up who is also struggling or trade information with. Is there some sort of network for people on the outside of the university system? A mailing list or something?
  - Ixiaus 13y ago
rdouble 13y ago
Undergrad level math courses are not as thorough as you might think due to the time compression needed to fit a topic into a semester. Learning fast is kind of the point. If you dive too deep you'll run out of time to get through all of the material and get poor grades.
- chunky1994 13y ago
  I would argue that this is highly dependent on the University/professor who is teaching you. I've seen courses where we're taught next to nothing in terms of thoroughness and also courses that stick us neck deep in the subject, literally going from axioms to a complete, standard mathematical framework.
unimpressive 13y ago
Autodidactism is hard in part because you don't get access to the huge repositories of journal articles and scholarly materials that are included in the cost of your college education. I guess that counts as "facilities" but when I hear that word I think equipment.
ritchiea 13y ago
I agree wholeheartedly. As someone who has a university degree that is academic at most tangentially related to developing software (cognitive science), the way I go about educating myself and the analytical approach I take to my work is deeply rooted in my college education. I can learn a lot on my own butI know I'm much better at being an autodidact because I got a great undergraduate education and I took (most) of those four years seriously in the classroom & the library.

by Ixiaus 13y ago

jmduke 13y ago

I completely agree with everything you said, particularly the difference between learning quickly and learning thoroughly. I'd love to hear more about your autodidacism. Do you mind explaining your learning process a bit more?

ericabiz 13y ago
I'm not Ixiaus but I am his best friend and co-founder (and totally going to give him hell in the office tomorrow for posting on HN when he's supposed to be on vacation. ;) Anyway, he gets up at 6AM every day and runs through a spaced repetition routine. He's written about his process here: http://ixmat.us/articles/2012-12-01_usable-org-drill.html http://ixmat.us/articles/2012-12-01_usable-org-drill.html
Ixiaus 13y ago
I'll write a blog post about it. It also includes a a designed curriculum, strict reading schedule, discipline in doing exercises, creativity in self evaluation, self awareness of strengths and weaknesses and tailoring the curriculum to them. I have a twenty page writing piece on my processes and philosophy that I will finalize. It appears there is a desire for it and I would love to interact with others sharing my journey! Send me a message at my email in my profile!

dizzystar 13y ago

Couldn't have said it better myself, as an autodidact of CS, math, and music, this is my thoughts. Managing your own time and learning curve is really hard. As an autodidact, I can just not do it because I am tired, busy, not in the mood, or whatever. The second thing that college grads don't get the value of is that they are able to learn by some proven path. This path is not etched out so well and requires considerable research, self-assessment, and decisions that aren't comfortable at all times. You could spend weeks a) researching what is next and b) attempting things you aren't ready for and blowing off a few weeks on something you gained nothing from because that knowledge base just wasn't there. There are many other little things you learn in college that are at times quite difficult to learn about on your own. Despite the apparent "free" education, nothing is free and there are things that you simply cannot learn or discover on your own. Guidance, whether from an instructor or a mentor, is very important when you are learning. Trust me, I'd gladly shovel out money for good guidance. You also live a lonely life and there is no one you can call up who is also struggling or trade information with. There is no way to really test yourself so you know you are correct and where you went wrong. Self-testing is either very hard or impossible in many instances, and that little epiphany you get from a red circle isn't available for you. It takes a certain amount of brutal honesty to get it right, and then you still don't always know. This is frustrating for me. The final piece is the double-edged sword of readiness. As a grad, you have proved to someone or some institution that you have mastered the material and are ready to work, whereas when you are an autodidact, you simply won't have the confidence to face an interviewer unless you are something like 10x better than any bachelor-holder, and sometimes masters-holder, that walks through the door. The time you lose on getting better and better -- plus the massive confidence boost -- is offset in spades by a decent education.

unimpressive 13y ago
>You also live a lonely life and there is no one you can call up who is also struggling or trade information with. Is there some sort of network for people on the outside of the university system? A mailing list or something?
- Ixiaus 13y ago

rdouble 13y ago

Undergrad level math courses are not as thorough as you might think due to the time compression needed to fit a topic into a semester. Learning fast is kind of the point. If you dive too deep you'll run out of time to get through all of the material and get poor grades.

chunky1994 13y ago
I would argue that this is highly dependent on the University/professor who is teaching you. I've seen courses where we're taught next to nothing in terms of thoroughness and also courses that stick us neck deep in the subject, literally going from axioms to a complete, standard mathematical framework.

unimpressive 13y ago

Autodidactism is hard in part because you don't get access to the huge repositories of journal articles and scholarly materials that are included in the cost of your college education. I guess that counts as "facilities" but when I hear that word I think equipment.

ritchiea 13y ago

I agree wholeheartedly. As someone who has a university degree that is academic at most tangentially related to developing software (cognitive science), the way I go about educating myself and the analytical approach I take to my work is deeply rooted in my college education. I can learn a lot on my own butI know I'm much better at being an autodidact because I got a great undergraduate education and I took (most) of those four years seriously in the classroom & the library.