7 ms·

I graduated two months ago, and I learned a lot of things, too. I learned that the fastest way I'll ever learn a subject (whether or not it's a programming lan

by jmduke 13y ago

I graduated two months ago, and I learned a lot of things, too. I learned that the fastest way I'll ever learn a subject (whether or not it's a programming language, a financial derivative, or an era of Hinduism) is on my own, poring over search engines and worn-down books. Professors will never teach me faster than I can teach myself. I learned that, yes, you're more or less paying for the piece of paper (but that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of other awesome things you get along the way.) I learned that, yes, that piece of paper is quite worth it, no matter how many hip tech companies say they don't care about pieces of paper. I learned that there can be infinitely more value in talking to a stranger for fifteen minutes than spending that time browsing Reddit (or playing a video game.) I learned that, despite my protestations otherwise, I honestly do perform best when my outcome is quantified, curved, and compared to other people's outcomes. I learned that everyone's college experience is wildly unique, too, as I benefitted from professors in both business and computer science classes who always rewarded creativity instead of stifling it. (I don't mean to say that I disliked college. It was the best four years of my life. But the idea that the undergraduate experience is marvelous and the idea that the undergraduate experience needs a lot of fixing are not necessarily in contention with one another.)

adamnemecek 13y ago
> I learned that the fastest way I'll ever learn a subject (whether or not it's a programming language, a financial derivative, or an era of Hinduism) is on my own, poring over search engines and worn-down books. Professors will never teach me faster than I can teach myself. I've had the same experience. And I hate how colleges seem not to recognize that.
- jmduke 13y ago
  Something I realized around seven semesters too late is that most programs are conducive to independent studies, which is I'm sure a wildly broad term but at my alma mater it was basically "Go spend three months on your own learning something interesting and then write a paper or a powerpoint or a plugin on it." You'd have an advisor (or sometimes a board of advisors) to meet with you every few weeks, but the work was all entirely self-directed, sort of like a mini-honors thesis. I imagine that those are going to become increasingly popular. If you abstract it out, its basically a credential system for productive independent thought, which is sort of the whole point.
  - adamnemecek 13y ago
    Where did you go to school if I may ask?
    - jmduke 13y ago
      The College of William & Mary, in Williamsburg, VA.
      - deadreturns 13y ago
        Ahaha who the hell are William & Mary? What a childish name for a college.
  - mjn 13y ago
    Independent study credit is definitely worth looking into, if your college has such a possibility (most do). However, as someone who supervises independent studies regularly, I can also say: independent studies are by far the classes most likely to result in the student just not doing anything at all, which to some extent shows why autodidacticism is not universal yet. In a traditional semester-long class with two-times-a-week meetings, it's very rare for a student to literally do nothing. Most will show up at least some of the time, and do at least some of the work. But it's easy to put off an independent study, because you have complete flexibility, and don't have to do anything this week if other things are more pressing. Then you end up 90% of the way through the semester realizing you haven't done anything. Some very good stuff comes out of independent-study projects, but the variance is large, and it doesn't work for everyone. As a supervisor, they take a disproportionate amount of management effort, just trying to track students down and prod them into non-procrastination.
- zanny 13y ago
  They do (usually). You can even get credit for it, at least in the US, it called CLEP - https://clep.collegeboard.org/ https://clep.collegeboard.org/. Cheapest year of college I ever had - was around $200. I skipped an entire years worth of useless general ed courses to get my "requirements" to graduate out of the way at my college on 6 CLEP tests. I think the notes I took for those tests reading the wikibooks and wikipedia articles on the various topics on those tests were some of the best domain information notes I've taken. I also wrote them online, so pretty much all my K-12 notes are useless, but I gave my CLEP notes to my extended family with notes they need to read the material themselves but I did a bunch of work already.
  - jjsz 13y ago
    Can you link your CLEP notes?
  - jjsz 13y ago
    Can you link your CLEP notes?
  - Crake 13y ago
    A lot of colleges won't allow you to CLEP out of things anymore, sadly. :( There's too much money to be made off of you.
    - caw 13y ago
      Now you can take AP courses, or "Advanced Placement". Through my high school each test was about $80, you're graded on a scale of 1-5 which is on a percentage basis (X% of people get a 5, etc). Schools can determine what sort of credit they want to take, but general rule is 3 or higher. My college only took 5s in sciences, but it was an engineering school. I skipped out on 26 credit hours of 140ish for the degree. It basically allowed me to change my major a year in without impacting my graduation date.
      - Crake 13y ago
        Yes, my school had AP courses as well, but only two of them. :( I think it's because my school was rural and poor. I've always been jealous of people who got to go to schools where they could take seven or eight AP courses and get a massive headstart on college.
- Tsagadai 13y ago
  Most of the value you can get from universities is through networking. If you don't meet anyone while you are there your degree truly is worthless. It isn't merely a matter of learning it for the sake of learning it is a matter of other people knowing that you know something or not.
chunky1994 13y ago
In reference to: I learned that the fastest way I'll ever learn a subject (whether or not it's a programming language, a financial derivative, or an era of Hinduism) is on my own, poring over search engines and worn-down books. Professors will never teach me faster than I can teach myself. I would add an addendum that a good professor can significantly accelerate my learning of a subject, while a bad professor (in University, and not in high school) does not slow it down, but does not add much value.
Ixiaus 13y ago
A few things formal institution graduates don't realize: When you say "you're more or less paying for the piece of paper" you're taking it for granted (unless you went to a shitty school). As an Autodidact in Mathematics, programming, compsci, and psychology with nothing but a GED; you underestimate the value of rigorous environments. Learning fast is also not the point. Learning thoroughly is the point. Thorough and rigorous learning is really fucking hard when an Autodidact. University is an environment that allusively inspires rigor. You're surrounded by peers doing the same thing you are; you have access to instructors that are (sometimes) the best in their field; and you have access to facilities (even as an alum!) that are prohibitively expensive for non-matriculating learners. Autodidacism is hard because you have to hold yourself to extremely high standards, you have to play with your own psychology to control inspiration and perseverance (you aren't accountable to anyone!!). So even if you learn on your own now after college you still will have a number tools at your disposal that you would've had to develop on your own without college. Yes, I learn far better on my own too, but do not discount the enormous opportunity you had by going through college.
- jmduke 13y ago
  I completely agree with everything you said, particularly the difference between learning quickly and learning thoroughly. I'd love to hear more about your autodidacism. Do you mind explaining your learning process a bit more?
  - ericabiz 13y ago
    I'm not Ixiaus but I am his best friend and co-founder (and totally going to give him hell in the office tomorrow for posting on HN when he's supposed to be on vacation. ;) Anyway, he gets up at 6AM every day and runs through a spaced repetition routine. He's written about his process here: http://ixmat.us/articles/2012-12-01_usable-org-drill.html http://ixmat.us/articles/2012-12-01_usable-org-drill.html
  - Ixiaus 13y ago
    I'll write a blog post about it. It also includes a a designed curriculum, strict reading schedule, discipline in doing exercises, creativity in self evaluation, self awareness of strengths and weaknesses and tailoring the curriculum to them. I have a twenty page writing piece on my processes and philosophy that I will finalize. It appears there is a desire for it and I would love to interact with others sharing my journey! Send me a message at my email in my profile!
dev1n 13y ago
Professors will never teach me faster than I can teach myself. This. I was watching John Adams and he made an excellent quote when speaking to his son, "A scholar is made alone and sober." It's going to be my mantra for my senior year at college.
- voltaism 13y ago
  That quote basically sums up my senior year (graduated in 2012). I found that after studying enough like that and doing well as a result, other people who do the same are more willing to befriend you. Then if either party have questions about the material, they have a fantastic outlet to ask them to. Then acing a class is really manageable.
kaitai 13y ago
I learned that the fastest way I'll ever learn a subject (whether or not it's a programming language, a financial derivative, or an era of Hinduism) is on my own, poring over search engines and worn-down books. Professors will never teach me faster than I can teach myself. That'll work fine until the things you want to learn are not written down anywhere. Most traumatic moment of grad school: Google thesis topic and realize that no one, no where knows anything about this (*&. Then it gets fun :) Talking with other knowledgeable people will dramatically accelerate the self-teaching process then. Most people will never do this, though.
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  Traumatic? I've written a paper (still unpublished), Googled the key words and key terms, and found that my old internet postings and arXiv copy were the only thing covering the material. It's wonderful! I'm the only one who's fucking touched this stuff!

by jmduke 13y ago

adamnemecek 13y ago

> I learned that the fastest way I'll ever learn a subject (whether or not it's a programming language, a financial derivative, or an era of Hinduism) is on my own, poring over search engines and worn-down books. Professors will never teach me faster than I can teach myself. I've had the same experience. And I hate how colleges seem not to recognize that.

jmduke 13y ago
Something I realized around seven semesters too late is that most programs are conducive to independent studies, which is I'm sure a wildly broad term but at my alma mater it was basically "Go spend three months on your own learning something interesting and then write a paper or a powerpoint or a plugin on it." You'd have an advisor (or sometimes a board of advisors) to meet with you every few weeks, but the work was all entirely self-directed, sort of like a mini-honors thesis. I imagine that those are going to become increasingly popular. If you abstract it out, its basically a credential system for productive independent thought, which is sort of the whole point.
- adamnemecek 13y ago
  Where did you go to school if I may ask?
  - jmduke 13y ago
    The College of William & Mary, in Williamsburg, VA.
    - deadreturns 13y ago
      Ahaha who the hell are William & Mary? What a childish name for a college.
- mjn 13y ago
  Independent study credit is definitely worth looking into, if your college has such a possibility (most do). However, as someone who supervises independent studies regularly, I can also say: independent studies are by far the classes most likely to result in the student just not doing anything at all, which to some extent shows why autodidacticism is not universal yet. In a traditional semester-long class with two-times-a-week meetings, it's very rare for a student to literally do nothing. Most will show up at least some of the time, and do at least some of the work. But it's easy to put off an independent study, because you have complete flexibility, and don't have to do anything this week if other things are more pressing. Then you end up 90% of the way through the semester realizing you haven't done anything. Some very good stuff comes out of independent-study projects, but the variance is large, and it doesn't work for everyone. As a supervisor, they take a disproportionate amount of management effort, just trying to track students down and prod them into non-procrastination.
zanny 13y ago
They do (usually). You can even get credit for it, at least in the US, it called CLEP - https://clep.collegeboard.org/ https://clep.collegeboard.org/. Cheapest year of college I ever had - was around $200. I skipped an entire years worth of useless general ed courses to get my "requirements" to graduate out of the way at my college on 6 CLEP tests. I think the notes I took for those tests reading the wikibooks and wikipedia articles on the various topics on those tests were some of the best domain information notes I've taken. I also wrote them online, so pretty much all my K-12 notes are useless, but I gave my CLEP notes to my extended family with notes they need to read the material themselves but I did a bunch of work already.
- jjsz 13y ago
  Can you link your CLEP notes?
- jjsz 13y ago
  Can you link your CLEP notes?
- Crake 13y ago
  A lot of colleges won't allow you to CLEP out of things anymore, sadly. :( There's too much money to be made off of you.
  - caw 13y ago
    Now you can take AP courses, or "Advanced Placement". Through my high school each test was about $80, you're graded on a scale of 1-5 which is on a percentage basis (X% of people get a 5, etc). Schools can determine what sort of credit they want to take, but general rule is 3 or higher. My college only took 5s in sciences, but it was an engineering school. I skipped out on 26 credit hours of 140ish for the degree. It basically allowed me to change my major a year in without impacting my graduation date.
    - Crake 13y ago
      Yes, my school had AP courses as well, but only two of them. :( I think it's because my school was rural and poor. I've always been jealous of people who got to go to schools where they could take seven or eight AP courses and get a massive headstart on college.
Tsagadai 13y ago
Most of the value you can get from universities is through networking. If you don't meet anyone while you are there your degree truly is worthless. It isn't merely a matter of learning it for the sake of learning it is a matter of other people knowing that you know something or not.

chunky1994 13y ago

In reference to: I learned that the fastest way I'll ever learn a subject (whether or not it's a programming language, a financial derivative, or an era of Hinduism) is on my own, poring over search engines and worn-down books. Professors will never teach me faster than I can teach myself. I would add an addendum that a good professor can significantly accelerate my learning of a subject, while a bad professor (in University, and not in high school) does not slow it down, but does not add much value.

Ixiaus 13y ago

A few things formal institution graduates don't realize: When you say "you're more or less paying for the piece of paper" you're taking it for granted (unless you went to a shitty school). As an Autodidact in Mathematics, programming, compsci, and psychology with nothing but a GED; you underestimate the value of rigorous environments. Learning fast is also not the point. Learning thoroughly is the point. Thorough and rigorous learning is really fucking hard when an Autodidact. University is an environment that allusively inspires rigor. You're surrounded by peers doing the same thing you are; you have access to instructors that are (sometimes) the best in their field; and you have access to facilities (even as an alum!) that are prohibitively expensive for non-matriculating learners. Autodidacism is hard because you have to hold yourself to extremely high standards, you have to play with your own psychology to control inspiration and perseverance (you aren't accountable to anyone!!). So even if you learn on your own now after college you still will have a number tools at your disposal that you would've had to develop on your own without college. Yes, I learn far better on my own too, but do not discount the enormous opportunity you had by going through college.

jmduke 13y ago
I completely agree with everything you said, particularly the difference between learning quickly and learning thoroughly. I'd love to hear more about your autodidacism. Do you mind explaining your learning process a bit more?
- ericabiz 13y ago
  I'm not Ixiaus but I am his best friend and co-founder (and totally going to give him hell in the office tomorrow for posting on HN when he's supposed to be on vacation. ;) Anyway, he gets up at 6AM every day and runs through a spaced repetition routine. He's written about his process here: http://ixmat.us/articles/2012-12-01_usable-org-drill.html http://ixmat.us/articles/2012-12-01_usable-org-drill.html
- Ixiaus 13y ago
  I'll write a blog post about it. It also includes a a designed curriculum, strict reading schedule, discipline in doing exercises, creativity in self evaluation, self awareness of strengths and weaknesses and tailoring the curriculum to them. I have a twenty page writing piece on my processes and philosophy that I will finalize. It appears there is a desire for it and I would love to interact with others sharing my journey! Send me a message at my email in my profile!

dev1n 13y ago

Professors will never teach me faster than I can teach myself. This. I was watching John Adams and he made an excellent quote when speaking to his son, "A scholar is made alone and sober." It's going to be my mantra for my senior year at college.

voltaism 13y ago
That quote basically sums up my senior year (graduated in 2012). I found that after studying enough like that and doing well as a result, other people who do the same are more willing to befriend you. Then if either party have questions about the material, they have a fantastic outlet to ask them to. Then acing a class is really manageable.

kaitai 13y ago

I learned that the fastest way I'll ever learn a subject (whether or not it's a programming language, a financial derivative, or an era of Hinduism) is on my own, poring over search engines and worn-down books. Professors will never teach me faster than I can teach myself. That'll work fine until the things you want to learn are not written down anywhere. Most traumatic moment of grad school: Google thesis topic and realize that no one, no where knows anything about this (*&. Then it gets fun :) Talking with other knowledgeable people will dramatically accelerate the self-teaching process then. Most people will never do this, though.

eli_gottlieb 13y ago
Traumatic? I've written a paper (still unpublished), Googled the key words and key terms, and found that my old internet postings and arXiv copy were the only thing covering the material. It's wonderful! I'm the only one who's fucking touched this stuff!