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Sigh. Another special snowflake lamenting that the system didn't bend to exactly his needs. What you get out of university is what you put into it. Want to be

by navait 13y ago

Sigh. Another special snowflake lamenting that the system didn't bend to exactly his needs. What you get out of university is what you put into it. Want to be judged for something other than test taking? Get involved in research. Get involved in one of the many math and CS organizations your campus has. But you have to go get them yourself. Nobody's going to say "oh, you're so smart, please join our team!" Get it out of your head that being smart entitles you to anything or makes you special. You'll find your classmates aren't robots, and are just as smart as you, and have a lot to offer.

JMStewy 13y ago
I think you're being too dismissive. You may be tired of seeing this kind of post from fresh graduates, but just because the solution to their problems seems obvious to you now, that doesn't change the fact that lots of 18-year-old kids don't know and don't find out until it's too late. That this happens to so many bright students is a waste of a lot of time, money, and human capital. Having considered it in the years since it happened to me, I think it boils down to a lack of mentorship in our educational system.
- navait 13y ago
  I am a fresh graduate, and I came into university with the same attitude as him, in a scholarship program full of people with my attitude. Fortunately, the dean talked to my freshman class during orientation. He said: "Yes, you're smart. But you'll find here, everyone else is also smart. You'll find that you have to distinguish yourself through the work you do.". Admittedly, my ego was too big at the time to really take the thought seriously, but after meeting so many wonderful people at the university, and many people who were so ridiculously smarter than I was I realized how special I wasn't. For the most part, I found people who kept my attitude didn't fare as well as the students who did change. I also think posts like this ignore all the students who navigate the system successfully. It makes our universities seem as failures, when they provide so much value and sucesses.
  - zanny 13y ago
    They are situational tools. They are not the catch all sink of learning, in the same way public instructor driven 30 students 40 - 60 minute blocks x8 chalkboard and tests isn't the catch all way to teach the masses in general for 12 years. The problem is everyone wants a one size fits all answer that takes in toddlers and spits out hyper-successful professionals in the most prosperous industries and human beings aren't best placed on conveyor belts in a factory. Some people benefit. Some people suffer. Some are indifferent and get bored. The bigger problem is figuring out there are many ways to learn beyond a book and a grade, and that we need to figure out how each individual learns best.
zalzane 13y ago
To be fair, there was only one paragraph lamenting that the system didn't bend to his needs. If you think that was the theme of this essay, then I suggest you reread it.
- vacri 13y ago
  For values of one where one equals three intro paragraphs and subsequently sprinkled through the essay, finishing up with a conclusion paragraph that is entirely unsurprising ('kids these days aren't getting the right skills') It's signed off with one of the more banal slogans you could hope to encounter (the bit in bold).
  - jacques_chester 13y ago
    We're in agreement for once, vacri. It started off strong and then veered off into embarrassing hyperbole. The part where he has a solution to the ills of the world but the margin is too small to contain it was my particular favourite.
blackhole 13y ago
Several people seem to get this theme out of the essay, which I think is partially due to the sarcastic tone I take in certain sections. I try to make it blatantly obvious that I disapprove of the system in general and think it's a disaster to everyone, not just me. To be perfectly honest, the system was fairly kind to me. I was able to deal with it. My little brother couldn't handle it and had to go to a special online high school and get tutoring help just to graduate. He is very bright, but the system just crushes him because he can't operate within it very well and the system doesn't care. I did once try to get into research. Academic research has a whole boatload of its own problems, including the professor/graduate student ponzi scheme and the overemphasis on getting published. I decided doing research on my own would be much more fruitful. My classmates were usually quite smart. They were also usually just as frustrated with the system as I was.
- sopooneo 13y ago
  Realize, please, that many as passionate as you, and with many of the same opinions, have gone into education to try to improve it. Not just now, but for decades.
  - blackhole 13y ago
    That is exactly the point that I raised in the essay. Education is a really hard problem. I don't claim I know how to fix it, but while everyone seems to agree that everything is broken, we are heading in the wrong direction.
    - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
      I wouldn't say education is that hard on any fundamental level. It is, however, quite heavily constrained by factors that have nothing to do with actual education. Imagine someone told you to build a robot out of wood and brass and whatever you could dig out of the ground, as a one-man effort, in a workshop. You might come up with steampunk and completely impress "someone", but more likely you'd just fail utterly because "someone" has given you loads and loads of extraneous constraints that have nothing to do with "build a robot" and everything to do with "I've dropped you into the late 19th century". That is how education gets constrained.
foobarbazqux 13y ago
> Sigh. Another special snowflake lamenting that the system didn't bend to exactly his needs. s/system/blogger/ and pot meets kettle.

by navait 13y ago

JMStewy 13y ago

I think you're being too dismissive. You may be tired of seeing this kind of post from fresh graduates, but just because the solution to their problems seems obvious to you now, that doesn't change the fact that lots of 18-year-old kids don't know and don't find out until it's too late. That this happens to so many bright students is a waste of a lot of time, money, and human capital. Having considered it in the years since it happened to me, I think it boils down to a lack of mentorship in our educational system.

navait 13y ago
I am a fresh graduate, and I came into university with the same attitude as him, in a scholarship program full of people with my attitude. Fortunately, the dean talked to my freshman class during orientation. He said: "Yes, you're smart. But you'll find here, everyone else is also smart. You'll find that you have to distinguish yourself through the work you do.". Admittedly, my ego was too big at the time to really take the thought seriously, but after meeting so many wonderful people at the university, and many people who were so ridiculously smarter than I was I realized how special I wasn't. For the most part, I found people who kept my attitude didn't fare as well as the students who did change. I also think posts like this ignore all the students who navigate the system successfully. It makes our universities seem as failures, when they provide so much value and sucesses.
- zanny 13y ago
  They are situational tools. They are not the catch all sink of learning, in the same way public instructor driven 30 students 40 - 60 minute blocks x8 chalkboard and tests isn't the catch all way to teach the masses in general for 12 years. The problem is everyone wants a one size fits all answer that takes in toddlers and spits out hyper-successful professionals in the most prosperous industries and human beings aren't best placed on conveyor belts in a factory. Some people benefit. Some people suffer. Some are indifferent and get bored. The bigger problem is figuring out there are many ways to learn beyond a book and a grade, and that we need to figure out how each individual learns best.

zalzane 13y ago

To be fair, there was only one paragraph lamenting that the system didn't bend to his needs. If you think that was the theme of this essay, then I suggest you reread it.

vacri 13y ago
For values of one where one equals three intro paragraphs and subsequently sprinkled through the essay, finishing up with a conclusion paragraph that is entirely unsurprising ('kids these days aren't getting the right skills') It's signed off with one of the more banal slogans you could hope to encounter (the bit in bold).
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  We're in agreement for once, vacri. It started off strong and then veered off into embarrassing hyperbole. The part where he has a solution to the ills of the world but the margin is too small to contain it was my particular favourite.

blackhole 13y ago

Several people seem to get this theme out of the essay, which I think is partially due to the sarcastic tone I take in certain sections. I try to make it blatantly obvious that I disapprove of the system in general and think it's a disaster to everyone, not just me. To be perfectly honest, the system was fairly kind to me. I was able to deal with it. My little brother couldn't handle it and had to go to a special online high school and get tutoring help just to graduate. He is very bright, but the system just crushes him because he can't operate within it very well and the system doesn't care. I did once try to get into research. Academic research has a whole boatload of its own problems, including the professor/graduate student ponzi scheme and the overemphasis on getting published. I decided doing research on my own would be much more fruitful. My classmates were usually quite smart. They were also usually just as frustrated with the system as I was.

sopooneo 13y ago
Realize, please, that many as passionate as you, and with many of the same opinions, have gone into education to try to improve it. Not just now, but for decades.
- blackhole 13y ago
  That is exactly the point that I raised in the essay. Education is a really hard problem. I don't claim I know how to fix it, but while everyone seems to agree that everything is broken, we are heading in the wrong direction.
  - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
    I wouldn't say education is that hard on any fundamental level. It is, however, quite heavily constrained by factors that have nothing to do with actual education. Imagine someone told you to build a robot out of wood and brass and whatever you could dig out of the ground, as a one-man effort, in a workshop. You might come up with steampunk and completely impress "someone", but more likely you'd just fail utterly because "someone" has given you loads and loads of extraneous constraints that have nothing to do with "build a robot" and everything to do with "I've dropped you into the late 19th century". That is how education gets constrained.

foobarbazqux 13y ago

> Sigh. Another special snowflake lamenting that the system didn't bend to exactly his needs. s/system/blogger/ and pot meets kettle.