5 ms·

High paying jobs available in those trades.

by rdouble 13y ago

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
Right, but good plumbers don't usually get the respect of a bad philosopher. And as far as that goes, education in the trades often fails to prepare the plumbers adequately for say, running their own plumbing business.
- glogla 13y ago
  That remind me of one of my friends, who went to do MBA ... so he can be more successful carpenter.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    >who went to do MBA ... so he can be more successful carpenter. Really? Wow. How did that work out for him?
    - glogla 13y ago
      He was running his carpentry business (starting from being one guy in garage and coming to several employees) so it's hard to say, but lately he talks about his new BMW a lot, so I guess it worked :)
- derleth 13y ago
  > Right, but good plumbers don't usually get the respect of a bad philosopher. Good physicists don't usually get the respect of bad philosophers, and vice-versa. This isn't really a problem you can solve using the university system, as far as I can see. > And as far as that goes, education in the trades often fails to prepare the plumbers adequately for say, running their own plumbing business. This, on the other hand, is a very good point. I'd like to expand on it, in fact: Beginning in grade school, there should be "Adult Living" courses that introduce kids to the kinds of things they'll be expected to know the first day they're on their own. Think of it as Home Economics with basic law (family law, what abuse is, what mortgages and contracts are, rental property law), real practical economics (budgeting, not balancing checkbooks), basic home maintenance (stuff that's also useful for apartment-dwellers) and, generally, a lot of diverse stuff that you have to know to avoid getting ripped off and/or laughed at and/or killed when you're living by yourself. You can say that the parents should be teaching this stuff. I agree, but you can say exactly the same thing about arithmetic and English, and we have the schools teach that stuff. More to the point, some kids kinda have shitty or ignorant or stupid parents, so they don't get the same education out of them others do.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    >This isn't really a problem you can solve using the university system, as far as I can see. I think you're probably right. >Think of it as Home Economics with basic law (family law, what abuse is, what mortgages and contracts are, rental property law), real practical economics (budgeting, not balancing checkbooks), basic home maintenance (stuff that's also useful for apartment-dwellers) and, generally, a lot of diverse stuff that you have to know to avoid getting ripped off and/or laughed at and/or killed when you're living by yourself. To be fair, my own high school did a fair job, they tried to address most of the things you mentioned, but there just wasn't enough of it, and a lot of the training I got (in maintenance, and not killing myself with tools) was extracurricular (FFA). So, what parts of high school do you want to throw out?
    - derleth 13y ago
      > So, what parts of high school do you want to throw out? Most of the traditional English courses, on the grounds that they're nearly always taught badly and have become jokes even in otherwise good schools. Replace them with sections in the Adult Living course that teach how to do close reading on advertisements and contracts. The best, most practical part of a good English course is the close reading training, but it really needs to be applied to something practical, as opposed to languishing in a course most students and teachers don't take very seriously. I don't care if eighteen-year-olds never read Hawthorne again if it means fewer of them get ripped off by unfair contracts or suckered by misleading ads. Shop class should be folded into Adult Living in its entirety, and the 'make a birdhouse' stuff should be de-emphasized and replaced with 'fixing your toilet' and similar household maintenance tasks. Learning how to use a band saw is great, but other things are more important. Beyond that, it would have to depend on what the individual school was doing and doing badly. There are general tropes but schools have a lot of local or at least state-wide autonomy, even public schools.
      - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
        Most of the traditional English courses, That's what I was thinking too. There's got to be some way to get them to understand their there and they're in less time than is usually taken. And, TBH, studying literature in HS made me hate it. It took years before I'd read again for fun. >'make a birdhouse' stuff should be de-emphasized and replaced with 'fixing your toilet' Agreed, but in my HS the wood-shop was where all the special folks went, it seemed to keep them busy.

High paying jobs available in those trades.

by rdouble 13y ago

High paying jobs available in those trades.

Right, but good plumbers don't usually get the respect of a bad philosopher. And as far as that goes, education in the trades often fails to prepare the plumbers adequately for say, running their own plumbing business.

glogla 13y ago
That remind me of one of my friends, who went to do MBA ... so he can be more successful carpenter.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  >who went to do MBA ... so he can be more successful carpenter. Really? Wow. How did that work out for him?
  - glogla 13y ago
    He was running his carpentry business (starting from being one guy in garage and coming to several employees) so it's hard to say, but lately he talks about his new BMW a lot, so I guess it worked :)
derleth 13y ago
> Right, but good plumbers don't usually get the respect of a bad philosopher. Good physicists don't usually get the respect of bad philosophers, and vice-versa. This isn't really a problem you can solve using the university system, as far as I can see. > And as far as that goes, education in the trades often fails to prepare the plumbers adequately for say, running their own plumbing business. This, on the other hand, is a very good point. I'd like to expand on it, in fact: Beginning in grade school, there should be "Adult Living" courses that introduce kids to the kinds of things they'll be expected to know the first day they're on their own. Think of it as Home Economics with basic law (family law, what abuse is, what mortgages and contracts are, rental property law), real practical economics (budgeting, not balancing checkbooks), basic home maintenance (stuff that's also useful for apartment-dwellers) and, generally, a lot of diverse stuff that you have to know to avoid getting ripped off and/or laughed at and/or killed when you're living by yourself. You can say that the parents should be teaching this stuff. I agree, but you can say exactly the same thing about arithmetic and English, and we have the schools teach that stuff. More to the point, some kids kinda have shitty or ignorant or stupid parents, so they don't get the same education out of them others do.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  >This isn't really a problem you can solve using the university system, as far as I can see. I think you're probably right. >Think of it as Home Economics with basic law (family law, what abuse is, what mortgages and contracts are, rental property law), real practical economics (budgeting, not balancing checkbooks), basic home maintenance (stuff that's also useful for apartment-dwellers) and, generally, a lot of diverse stuff that you have to know to avoid getting ripped off and/or laughed at and/or killed when you're living by yourself. To be fair, my own high school did a fair job, they tried to address most of the things you mentioned, but there just wasn't enough of it, and a lot of the training I got (in maintenance, and not killing myself with tools) was extracurricular (FFA). So, what parts of high school do you want to throw out?
  - derleth 13y ago
    > So, what parts of high school do you want to throw out? Most of the traditional English courses, on the grounds that they're nearly always taught badly and have become jokes even in otherwise good schools. Replace them with sections in the Adult Living course that teach how to do close reading on advertisements and contracts. The best, most practical part of a good English course is the close reading training, but it really needs to be applied to something practical, as opposed to languishing in a course most students and teachers don't take very seriously. I don't care if eighteen-year-olds never read Hawthorne again if it means fewer of them get ripped off by unfair contracts or suckered by misleading ads. Shop class should be folded into Adult Living in its entirety, and the 'make a birdhouse' stuff should be de-emphasized and replaced with 'fixing your toilet' and similar household maintenance tasks. Learning how to use a band saw is great, but other things are more important. Beyond that, it would have to depend on what the individual school was doing and doing badly. There are general tropes but schools have a lot of local or at least state-wide autonomy, even public schools.
    - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
      Most of the traditional English courses, That's what I was thinking too. There's got to be some way to get them to understand their there and they're in less time than is usually taken. And, TBH, studying literature in HS made me hate it. It took years before I'd read again for fun. >'make a birdhouse' stuff should be de-emphasized and replaced with 'fixing your toilet' Agreed, but in my HS the wood-shop was where all the special folks went, it seemed to keep them busy.