3 ms·

When it comes to profs of the stature of Dijkstra it doesn't matter what you pay the school.

by Sven7 13y ago

tomjen3 13y ago
What, other than the (rather trivial) algorithm named after him, has he really done that is worth noting? To me he is like Crockford - all talk, no code.
- Derander 13y ago
  http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ Feel free to read one of the thirteen hundred things he published. Most relevant to you (probably) is that he championed the use of "structured programming" -- aka, if, for, while, and other narrowly focused constructs -- as opposed to GOTO: he's the author of "Go To Statement Considered Harmful ". Also, remember also that many algorithms seem trivial once you've learned them.
- michaelhoffman 13y ago
  Here is the citation for his 1972 Turing Award, the highest distinction in computer science: "Edsger Dijkstra was a principal contributor in the late 1950s to the development of the ALGOL, a high level programming language which has become a model of clarity and mathematical rigor. He is one of the principal proponents of the science and art of programming languages in general, and has greatly contributed to our understanding of their structure, representation, and implementation. His fifteen years of publications extend from theoretical articles on graph theory to basic manuals, expository texts, and philosophical contemplations in the field of programming languages."
  - marvin 13y ago
    ...and for those on HN who are self-taught and aren't aware of the history of computer science, ALGOL is the foundation of imperative programming and inspires just about every imperative language today. Crucially, this means C and C++, which means that Dijkstra's work is part of the foundation for most operating systems and low-level code in the world - indeed most software systems period, since the vast majority of these are somehow based on C.
  - greenyoda 13y ago
    And let's not forget his work on concurrent processes: he invented the concept of the semaphore, which is still widely used almost fifty years later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_%28programming%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_%28programming%29
    - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
      >he invented the concept of the semaphore, I think he may have borrowed that from the railroads, even if he didn't invent it independently though, he was smart enough to see its usefulness and apply it.
- wglb 13y ago
  He wrote an OS, in conjunction with students, called THE. It had a total of something like four errors in its lifetime. He also spearheaded a compiler project which was made up of two teams where one part would check each other. You should check out some of his work, in particular, his calling out computer manufacturers for making bogus hardware.
  - innguest 13y ago
    This is one of the most interesting posts here, but some of those are hard to search for. Care to link?
    - wglb 13y ago
      There are vast archives of his writing here: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ A paper describing THE: http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~zaher/classes/CS656/p341-dijkstra.pdf http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~zaher/classes/CS656/p341-dijkstr... This paper here http://www.tomandmaria.com/tom/Writing/DijkstrasCrisis_LeidenDRAFT.pdf http://www.tomandmaria.com/tom/Writing/DijkstrasCrisis_Leide... has a worthwhile quote: Dijkstra’s crisis was rather more idiosyncratic than has generally been acknowledged. He took up the language of crisis to convey the need to replace “Chinese armies” of badly trained and mediocre programmers with an elite corps of “mathematical engineers” modeled on himself. Here is an article of personal reflections about a correspondence with Dijkstra: http://vanemden.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/i-remember-edsger-dijkstra-1930-2002/ http://vanemden.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/i-remember-edsger-d.... Folks today don't seem to read much Dijkstra. I think the growing security industry is one side effect of that.
      - innguest 13y ago
        Much obliged!
- srean 13y ago
  Never ever have I felt a stronger urge to downvote. Its one thing to be ignorant and vapid, entirely another to cast judgements from a position of entitlement, without even the bare minimum of an effort to edify yourself. The shortest path algorithm comes nowhere close to his other accomplishment. A significant part of computer science stands on its feet, because of the foundations he built.
- logical42 13y ago
  I suspect you may have overpaid for your education.
prostoalex 13y ago
US higher education system mixes two types of professors: 1) Those who do an excellent job researching 2) Those who do an excellent job teaching I don't know anything about Dijkstra's teaching abilities, but (1) and (2) are frequently an OR for each professor, not an AND.
- null_ptr 13y ago
  So a XOR :-)
  - sukuriant 13y ago
    The AND professors I've had are some of the finest. I think I had 1, maybe 2.
- eitally 13y ago
  The fact is that unless it's in the student's own field of research interest, it's far much profitable to the kids to be under the tutelage of a teacher rather than a researcher. Perhaps universities should offer independent research/study options to undergraduates in the same way they do for graduate students: describe your interests, create a plan of work, recruit a review committee (or for undergrads, perhaps just a single professor), and have at it. As a history major I had a couple of folks treat their own courses this way and by acting as a facilitator to self-discovery I learned far more than in traditional lectures. Standing out for me was Terry Belanger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Belanger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Belanger), but he's something of a "Dijkstra" celebrity in the field of bibliophilia so ymmv. One of the options he gave students was to curate their own exhibit in the University of Virginia's most prominent display museum (the Dome Room of the http://www.virginia.edu/rotunda/ http://www.virginia.edu/rotunda/), and this experience was one of themost impactful experiences in my college career. ... It also steered me away from public history and toward technology, and I'm glad that happened BEFORE I graduated than afterward.

When it comes to profs of the stature of Dijkstra it doesn't matter what you pay the school.

by Sven7 13y ago

When it comes to profs of the stature of Dijkstra it doesn't matter what you pay the school.

What, other than the (rather trivial) algorithm named after him, has he really done that is worth noting? To me he is like Crockford - all talk, no code.

Derander 13y ago
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ Feel free to read one of the thirteen hundred things he published. Most relevant to you (probably) is that he championed the use of "structured programming" -- aka, if, for, while, and other narrowly focused constructs -- as opposed to GOTO: he's the author of "Go To Statement Considered Harmful ". Also, remember also that many algorithms seem trivial once you've learned them.
michaelhoffman 13y ago
Here is the citation for his 1972 Turing Award, the highest distinction in computer science: "Edsger Dijkstra was a principal contributor in the late 1950s to the development of the ALGOL, a high level programming language which has become a model of clarity and mathematical rigor. He is one of the principal proponents of the science and art of programming languages in general, and has greatly contributed to our understanding of their structure, representation, and implementation. His fifteen years of publications extend from theoretical articles on graph theory to basic manuals, expository texts, and philosophical contemplations in the field of programming languages."
- marvin 13y ago
  ...and for those on HN who are self-taught and aren't aware of the history of computer science, ALGOL is the foundation of imperative programming and inspires just about every imperative language today. Crucially, this means C and C++, which means that Dijkstra's work is part of the foundation for most operating systems and low-level code in the world - indeed most software systems period, since the vast majority of these are somehow based on C.
- greenyoda 13y ago
  And let's not forget his work on concurrent processes: he invented the concept of the semaphore, which is still widely used almost fifty years later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_%28programming%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_%28programming%29
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    >he invented the concept of the semaphore, I think he may have borrowed that from the railroads, even if he didn't invent it independently though, he was smart enough to see its usefulness and apply it.
wglb 13y ago
He wrote an OS, in conjunction with students, called THE. It had a total of something like four errors in its lifetime. He also spearheaded a compiler project which was made up of two teams where one part would check each other. You should check out some of his work, in particular, his calling out computer manufacturers for making bogus hardware.
- innguest 13y ago
  This is one of the most interesting posts here, but some of those are hard to search for. Care to link?
  - wglb 13y ago
    There are vast archives of his writing here: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ A paper describing THE: http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~zaher/classes/CS656/p341-dijkstra.pdf http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~zaher/classes/CS656/p341-dijkstr... This paper here http://www.tomandmaria.com/tom/Writing/DijkstrasCrisis_LeidenDRAFT.pdf http://www.tomandmaria.com/tom/Writing/DijkstrasCrisis_Leide... has a worthwhile quote: Dijkstra’s crisis was rather more idiosyncratic than has generally been acknowledged. He took up the language of crisis to convey the need to replace “Chinese armies” of badly trained and mediocre programmers with an elite corps of “mathematical engineers” modeled on himself. Here is an article of personal reflections about a correspondence with Dijkstra: http://vanemden.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/i-remember-edsger-dijkstra-1930-2002/ http://vanemden.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/i-remember-edsger-d.... Folks today don't seem to read much Dijkstra. I think the growing security industry is one side effect of that.
    - innguest 13y ago
      Much obliged!
srean 13y ago
Never ever have I felt a stronger urge to downvote. Its one thing to be ignorant and vapid, entirely another to cast judgements from a position of entitlement, without even the bare minimum of an effort to edify yourself. The shortest path algorithm comes nowhere close to his other accomplishment. A significant part of computer science stands on its feet, because of the foundations he built.
logical42 13y ago
I suspect you may have overpaid for your education.

prostoalex 13y ago

US higher education system mixes two types of professors: 1) Those who do an excellent job researching 2) Those who do an excellent job teaching I don't know anything about Dijkstra's teaching abilities, but (1) and (2) are frequently an OR for each professor, not an AND.

null_ptr 13y ago
So a XOR :-)
- sukuriant 13y ago
  The AND professors I've had are some of the finest. I think I had 1, maybe 2.
eitally 13y ago
The fact is that unless it's in the student's own field of research interest, it's far much profitable to the kids to be under the tutelage of a teacher rather than a researcher. Perhaps universities should offer independent research/study options to undergraduates in the same way they do for graduate students: describe your interests, create a plan of work, recruit a review committee (or for undergrads, perhaps just a single professor), and have at it. As a history major I had a couple of folks treat their own courses this way and by acting as a facilitator to self-discovery I learned far more than in traditional lectures. Standing out for me was Terry Belanger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Belanger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Belanger), but he's something of a "Dijkstra" celebrity in the field of bibliophilia so ymmv. One of the options he gave students was to curate their own exhibit in the University of Virginia's most prominent display museum (the Dome Room of the http://www.virginia.edu/rotunda/ http://www.virginia.edu/rotunda/), and this experience was one of themost impactful experiences in my college career. ... It also steered me away from public history and toward technology, and I'm glad that happened BEFORE I graduated than afterward.