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solitary confinement could trigger it as well probably, it depends on how things have been set up. Obama should have handled this in a totally different way, h

solitary confinement could trigger it as well probably, it depends on how things have been set up. Obama should have handled this in a totally different way, he should have treated him as a partner for having shed light upon a corrupted practice of the NSA, and should have asked the people heading the NSA to resign. This would have been a checkmate against any other US antagonist in my opinion, but I admit that is definitely too easy to judge things you don't know in every aspect from the comfort of your own home.

seferphier 13y ago
that would make obama score points in the public, but it is his second term as president already. this would also encourage more whistleblower activity that may get out of hand.
- onebaddude 13y ago
  There is no such thing as "too much" whistle blowing.
  - notdrunkatall 13y ago
    That depends on which side of the whistle you find yourself.
  - lectrick 13y ago
    Let's assume for a moment that there exists an individual who (via unknown mechanisms) knows about 90% of the hidden affairs of marriages in the world. Should that person "blow that whistle", as it were, suddenly turning almost all relationships "honest"? Or would it cause widespread havoc and upheaval?
    - onebaddude 13y ago
      >Should that person "blow that whistle" Ask the people who are being cheated on. Or spied on.
      - lectrick 13y ago
        I'm not suggesting an answer. I'm posing a thought experiment. I think it's a reasonably good analogy. My answer is probably odd- I'd want to know if I was the possible jiltee, but I don't know if I'd say that it should be revealed for ALL people.
mtgx 13y ago
The problem is Obama completely agreed with what the NSA was doing, and most likely even ordered everything to be done that way (that's why he so viciously defended the FISA Amendments Act last year, and why he tried to get lawsuits dismissed). However, I agree that is what he should do anyway. Clapper and Alexander should get fired immediately, and so should Holder - but he's been bailing out Holder so many times, I'm starting to think it's a lost cause that he'd ever stop protecting him. If there was a video of Holder shooting a man in head, he'd probably still pardon him. I disagree with your last part, though, that it would prevent other whistleblowers from coming out. Why would it? It would prove Snowden did a good thing, and more would come out later to fix the system (which is exactly what should happen).
- grandalf 13y ago
  Isn't it silly to fire the officials when the blame lies with the presidents? In my opinion, it's about as useful as blaming Rumsfeld for Bush's war. Appointed officials are servants who fall on their swords when needed to protect the boss. Punishing the underlings just insulates the presidents from blame.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Rumsfeld's culpability for what happened in Iraq is extensive.
    - grandalf 13y ago
      Perhaps, but only to the extent that Bush would remove him... and, if tried, to the extent that he violated laws. Bush stood behind him, happily letting him take flak from the media and political opponents for years. The buck has to stop with the president. How depressing for our civilization that people get worked up blaming a lower level appointee whose job it was to be operationally in charge of dirty work that was fully supported by the president.
      - tptacek 13y ago

seferphier 13y ago

that would make obama score points in the public, but it is his second term as president already. this would also encourage more whistleblower activity that may get out of hand.

onebaddude 13y ago
There is no such thing as "too much" whistle blowing.
- notdrunkatall 13y ago
  That depends on which side of the whistle you find yourself.
- lectrick 13y ago
  Let's assume for a moment that there exists an individual who (via unknown mechanisms) knows about 90% of the hidden affairs of marriages in the world. Should that person "blow that whistle", as it were, suddenly turning almost all relationships "honest"? Or would it cause widespread havoc and upheaval?
  - onebaddude 13y ago
    >Should that person "blow that whistle" Ask the people who are being cheated on. Or spied on.
    - lectrick 13y ago
      I'm not suggesting an answer. I'm posing a thought experiment. I think it's a reasonably good analogy. My answer is probably odd- I'd want to know if I was the possible jiltee, but I don't know if I'd say that it should be revealed for ALL people.

mtgx 13y ago

The problem is Obama completely agreed with what the NSA was doing, and most likely even ordered everything to be done that way (that's why he so viciously defended the FISA Amendments Act last year, and why he tried to get lawsuits dismissed). However, I agree that is what he should do anyway. Clapper and Alexander should get fired immediately, and so should Holder - but he's been bailing out Holder so many times, I'm starting to think it's a lost cause that he'd ever stop protecting him. If there was a video of Holder shooting a man in head, he'd probably still pardon him. I disagree with your last part, though, that it would prevent other whistleblowers from coming out. Why would it? It would prove Snowden did a good thing, and more would come out later to fix the system (which is exactly what should happen).

grandalf 13y ago
Isn't it silly to fire the officials when the blame lies with the presidents? In my opinion, it's about as useful as blaming Rumsfeld for Bush's war. Appointed officials are servants who fall on their swords when needed to protect the boss. Punishing the underlings just insulates the presidents from blame.
- tptacek 13y ago
  Rumsfeld's culpability for what happened in Iraq is extensive.
  - grandalf 13y ago
    Perhaps, but only to the extent that Bush would remove him... and, if tried, to the extent that he violated laws. Bush stood behind him, happily letting him take flak from the media and political opponents for years. The buck has to stop with the president. How depressing for our civilization that people get worked up blaming a lower level appointee whose job it was to be operationally in charge of dirty work that was fully supported by the president.
    - tptacek 13y ago