6 ms·

Twitter hands over data to ID racist users

28 points by titlex 13y ago

dnskw 13y ago
Were the tweets really so bad that they incited racial hatred?
- smegel 13y ago
  I think you will find "causing serious offence" is also a crime. At least it is in Australia. Which means even jokes and flippant remarks can result in criminal convictions if you didn't show enough sensitivity to some minority group. Americans are extremely lucky that they live in a country with two principals that basically don't exist anywhere else 1) that there should be limits on the power of the state to interfere in private affairs and 2) freedom of thought/expression. The fact that the NSA scandal has become...well such a scandal is that those principals existed to be violated in the first place.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    >I think you will find "causing serious offence" is also a crime. At least it is in Australia. Which means even jokes and flippant remarks can result in criminal convictions if you didn't show enough sensitivity to some minority group. Yes, after fucking over the native population for centuries, hunting them like animals, and closing them in concentration fuck-camps, suddenly the Australian government is all-too sensitive to the effects of ...hate speech.
    - waps 13y ago
      Yes, I think you'll find the UN is pushing for that worldwide. It's not the UN per se, but mostly the OIC (who think nothing is wrong with stealing children to rape them, but "hate speech", that's a problem). Although I can fully understand why a bunch of islamic dictators feel the need to suppress the truth, and punish any "hate" speech harshly. They certainly do so in their own countries. Europe somehow thinks it's a good idea to oblige. Interesting titbit "Vlad Dracul", the real one, king of Wallacia, is one of those children stolen under muslim law. Didn't work out to well for the thieves, or for anybody else for that matter. (ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler#Life_in_Edirne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler#Life_in_Edirn... )
  - dnskw 13y ago
    I am an American. I knew they had ridiculous laws like this in the UK. I recall hearing about some lady who said something racist on a subway and got arrested. Pretty ridiculous in my opinion. >The fact that the NSA scandal has become...well such a scandal is that those principals existed to be violated in the first place. It still would have been pretty big news. The director of national intelligence lied to congress. People likely would have just brushed that under the table (like they are doing now) though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#False_testimony_to_Congress_and_NSA_surveillance_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#False_testimo...
codezero 13y ago
It's my understanding that the content provider is only responsible for laws in areas where their data is hosted. Does Twitter have a data center in France? If not, how did this end up in French court?
- nawitus 13y ago
  Any country can sue any person or any company around the world if they want to. The question is if such sentences can be enforced.
- DannyBee 13y ago
  Your understanding is incorrect. You just generally won't get your datacenter raided except for violating the laws of the country where you host data. Most nations (US included) try to claim jurisdiction over anything that affects people in their nation. In practice, your choices end up being: 1. Comply or some combination of: 2a. Have any local offices (not datacenter) raided and any country-level execs possibly arrested 2b. Having any remote execs arrested if they ever end up in that country.
  - codezero 13y ago
    But if you have no offices then you are OK? Thanks, by the way for clarifying.
    - desas 13y ago
      If you don't have any offices, money or staff based in a country, and no-one visits it (even for holiday), then they have nothing to enforce the law against.
eeky 13y ago
OK so let me get this straight: Many French tweeted jokes about "#UnBonJuif" (translation: a good jew), then an organization called UEJF (Union of French Jewish Students) goes on a legal attack and manages to get Twitter to cough up the info on the "perpetrators" and now those users are facing jail time? Two conclusions I can make here: France, despite being a proponent of "liberte", does not have freedom of speech. Secondly, don't insult Jews, even on the internet.
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  While over here if you make a terrorism joke and then immediately say that you were joking, you also face jail time.
  - cenhyperion 13y ago
    With unreasonable bails, and a "speedy trial" means within a year or so.
- TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
  No, in Europe we have the concept of "freedom of speech has limits". Basically, you are free to speak, but you are not free to make hate speech.
  - venomsnake 13y ago
    Definition of hate speech - anything that can make anyone vaguely uncomfortable or the government don't like. It will be interesting to compare east and west Germans on their attitudes towards free speech since the last had to "enjoy" the rule of communist party. (disclaimer - my relatives were prosecuted in the 40s-50s from the newly empowered communist party in Bulgaria) When a nation lives trough that you become to respect the almost absolute freedom US enjoys.
    - scotty79 13y ago
      Like US freedom to joke online in a way that some Canadian women thinks could be a terrorist threat?
foobarbazqux 13y ago
Here's a compilation of the tweets in French: http://www.lemonde.fr/technologies/article/2012/10/14/unbonjuif-un-concours-de-blagues-antisemites-derape-sur-twitter_1775233_651865.html http://www.lemonde.fr/technologies/article/2012/10/14/unbonj... - <picture of a jew in a concentration camp bed> #UnBonJuif - A good jew is hard to cook. - A good jew is a dead jew. - <picture of ashes pouring out of a hand> #UnBonJuif - A good jew is cooked well-done. Stuff like that. I'm at a bit of a loss for words; I feel a deep sadness about this. These are the French hate speech laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_France The courts don't appear keen to convict based on the case history, and I'm guessing these guys will be acquitted.
- TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
  Well, that's pretty disgusting.
  - arethuza 13y ago
    Disgusting was the right word for me - I literally felt ill reading those statements. But should saying things like that be a criminal offense? Personally I would say no. However, I can also understand the extreme sensitivity in various European countries in this area - especially when there are still people alive who survived the camps.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    Tons of other stuff is digusting too. That shouldn't make excuses and laws to ban free speech.
    - onli 13y ago
      Free speech has barriers. Like all freedom, if the freedom of one minimizes the freedom of others; or if one specific freedom minimizes another freedom, a fair balance has to be uphold. In the case of freedom of speech, it is such a fair balance to ban incitement of the people in favor of the other forms of freedoms like the right to exist without being subject to such forms of hatred. France, Germany and many other seem to agree in that point. Those tweets exactly cross the barrier, and the author has to be prosecuted.
driverdan 13y ago
Does Twitter have a business presence in France? If not, why did they bother to comply?

28 points by titlex 13y ago

dnskw 13y ago

Were the tweets really so bad that they incited racial hatred?

smegel 13y ago
I think you will find "causing serious offence" is also a crime. At least it is in Australia. Which means even jokes and flippant remarks can result in criminal convictions if you didn't show enough sensitivity to some minority group. Americans are extremely lucky that they live in a country with two principals that basically don't exist anywhere else 1) that there should be limits on the power of the state to interfere in private affairs and 2) freedom of thought/expression. The fact that the NSA scandal has become...well such a scandal is that those principals existed to be violated in the first place.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >I think you will find "causing serious offence" is also a crime. At least it is in Australia. Which means even jokes and flippant remarks can result in criminal convictions if you didn't show enough sensitivity to some minority group. Yes, after fucking over the native population for centuries, hunting them like animals, and closing them in concentration fuck-camps, suddenly the Australian government is all-too sensitive to the effects of ...hate speech.
  - waps 13y ago
    Yes, I think you'll find the UN is pushing for that worldwide. It's not the UN per se, but mostly the OIC (who think nothing is wrong with stealing children to rape them, but "hate speech", that's a problem). Although I can fully understand why a bunch of islamic dictators feel the need to suppress the truth, and punish any "hate" speech harshly. They certainly do so in their own countries. Europe somehow thinks it's a good idea to oblige. Interesting titbit "Vlad Dracul", the real one, king of Wallacia, is one of those children stolen under muslim law. Didn't work out to well for the thieves, or for anybody else for that matter. (ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler#Life_in_Edirne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler#Life_in_Edirn... )
- dnskw 13y ago
  I am an American. I knew they had ridiculous laws like this in the UK. I recall hearing about some lady who said something racist on a subway and got arrested. Pretty ridiculous in my opinion. >The fact that the NSA scandal has become...well such a scandal is that those principals existed to be violated in the first place. It still would have been pretty big news. The director of national intelligence lied to congress. People likely would have just brushed that under the table (like they are doing now) though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#False_testimony_to_Congress_and_NSA_surveillance_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#False_testimo...

codezero 13y ago

It's my understanding that the content provider is only responsible for laws in areas where their data is hosted. Does Twitter have a data center in France? If not, how did this end up in French court?

nawitus 13y ago
Any country can sue any person or any company around the world if they want to. The question is if such sentences can be enforced.
DannyBee 13y ago
Your understanding is incorrect. You just generally won't get your datacenter raided except for violating the laws of the country where you host data. Most nations (US included) try to claim jurisdiction over anything that affects people in their nation. In practice, your choices end up being: 1. Comply or some combination of: 2a. Have any local offices (not datacenter) raided and any country-level execs possibly arrested 2b. Having any remote execs arrested if they ever end up in that country.
- codezero 13y ago
  But if you have no offices then you are OK? Thanks, by the way for clarifying.
  - desas 13y ago
    If you don't have any offices, money or staff based in a country, and no-one visits it (even for holiday), then they have nothing to enforce the law against.

eeky 13y ago

OK so let me get this straight: Many French tweeted jokes about "#UnBonJuif" (translation: a good jew), then an organization called UEJF (Union of French Jewish Students) goes on a legal attack and manages to get Twitter to cough up the info on the "perpetrators" and now those users are facing jail time? Two conclusions I can make here: France, despite being a proponent of "liberte", does not have freedom of speech. Secondly, don't insult Jews, even on the internet.

foobarbazqux 13y ago
While over here if you make a terrorism joke and then immediately say that you were joking, you also face jail time.
- cenhyperion 13y ago
  With unreasonable bails, and a "speedy trial" means within a year or so.
TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
No, in Europe we have the concept of "freedom of speech has limits". Basically, you are free to speak, but you are not free to make hate speech.
- venomsnake 13y ago
  Definition of hate speech - anything that can make anyone vaguely uncomfortable or the government don't like. It will be interesting to compare east and west Germans on their attitudes towards free speech since the last had to "enjoy" the rule of communist party. (disclaimer - my relatives were prosecuted in the 40s-50s from the newly empowered communist party in Bulgaria) When a nation lives trough that you become to respect the almost absolute freedom US enjoys.
  - scotty79 13y ago
    Like US freedom to joke online in a way that some Canadian women thinks could be a terrorist threat?

foobarbazqux 13y ago

Here's a compilation of the tweets in French: http://www.lemonde.fr/technologies/article/2012/10/14/unbonjuif-un-concours-de-blagues-antisemites-derape-sur-twitter_1775233_651865.html http://www.lemonde.fr/technologies/article/2012/10/14/unbonj... - <picture of a jew in a concentration camp bed> #UnBonJuif - A good jew is hard to cook. - A good jew is a dead jew. - <picture of ashes pouring out of a hand> #UnBonJuif - A good jew is cooked well-done. Stuff like that. I'm at a bit of a loss for words; I feel a deep sadness about this. These are the French hate speech laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_France The courts don't appear keen to convict based on the case history, and I'm guessing these guys will be acquitted.

TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
Well, that's pretty disgusting.
- arethuza 13y ago
  Disgusting was the right word for me - I literally felt ill reading those statements. But should saying things like that be a criminal offense? Personally I would say no. However, I can also understand the extreme sensitivity in various European countries in this area - especially when there are still people alive who survived the camps.
- coldtea 13y ago
  Tons of other stuff is digusting too. That shouldn't make excuses and laws to ban free speech.
  - onli 13y ago
    Free speech has barriers. Like all freedom, if the freedom of one minimizes the freedom of others; or if one specific freedom minimizes another freedom, a fair balance has to be uphold. In the case of freedom of speech, it is such a fair balance to ban incitement of the people in favor of the other forms of freedoms like the right to exist without being subject to such forms of hatred. France, Germany and many other seem to agree in that point. Those tweets exactly cross the barrier, and the author has to be prosecuted.

driverdan 13y ago

Does Twitter have a business presence in France? If not, why did they bother to comply?