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> Schools have almost gone through this stage and fully gone over to mixed classrooms. To their detriment. As a product of both coed and all boys private schoo

> Schools have almost gone through this stage and fully gone over to mixed classrooms. To their detriment. As a product of both coed and all boys private schools, there is a stark difference in teaching and disceplin in single sex schools that research shows improves outcomes. Hit http://scholar.google.com/ http://scholar.google.com/ with "single sex education." There is a huge discrepancy in male performance especially that most teachers admit a preference to teaching girls as they "behave" better. Bigotry and sexism exists, but the "problem" is an effect of the US obsession with political correctness and an overly sensitive and litigious society. There are cases of systematic discrimination in organizations, but they are not as pervasive as a few decades ago, so there has been progress, especially in corporate environments. An example is a female cousin with a law degree. Being a women of breading age, she was specifically asked if she intended to have children in the next 5 years which was a non-starter. These were small firms that couldn't afford to have a junior partner off for maternity leave. She had no problem with that at a large corporation. On equality, if you start giving men maternity leave in the same way as women, and effectively change societies views on gender roles in the home, you might start seeing that form of discrimination disappear as in the scandinavian countries. There is much to be said about differences in men and women's personalities. Normal banter between men about women kept on the "acceptable in a sitcom" when not directed at any specific women, in my view is not sexual harassment, but clearly some people disagree with that. So as long as the kid gloves are on...

Jach 13y ago
As this Hungarian illustrates, getting the government involved to guarantee these sorts of "anti-discrimination" rules can lead to a very bad outcome: http://www.arcticstartup.com/2012/01/09/this-is-why-i-dont-give-you-a-job http://www.arcticstartup.com/2012/01/09/this-is-why-i-dont-g... (Too bad the guy's blog has died, he had some more good rants on it that made me very glad not to live in Hungary.)
- whiterabbit2 13y ago
  I looked up Hungarian laws, and the problem is not the government involvement, but that there is a huge difference between maternity and paternity leave (3 years vs 5 days). This somehow doesn't fit "anti-discrimination", as it's quite the opposite.
pessimizer 13y ago
>if you start giving men maternity leave in the same way as women I agree. >Normal banter between men about women kept on the "acceptable in a sitcom" when not directed at any specific women, in my view is not sexual harassment, but clearly some people disagree with that. I definitely disagree with that at work. If you want to discuss your sexuality, comment on people's body parts, or articulate your unified theory on the differences in the natures of men and women, get some friends. People have to work in order to eat - allow women (and men) to get through it without having to constantly bite their tongues or else be seen as the problem. We've made a decision as a society that racial, sexual and religious discrimination are problems at work. Find another subject.
- anaptdemise 13y ago
  > allow women (and men) to get through it without having to constantly bite their tongues or else be seen as the problem Right. Bite my tongue and put on the kid gloves. Wouldn't want to discuss last nights episode of Game of Thrones in the break room, less be seen as a sexist jerk. People do have friends at work, and normal human interactions do take place there.
  - pessimizer 13y ago
    People also have sex with people they know from work. Should they have it at work? If you can't find something to talk about at work other than how hot some naked woman on tv was last night, they're not giving you enough to do. If your friends at work refuse to meet you away from work for your crucial sex talk, they may be uncomfortable with it too. If your self-righteousness is because you feel put upon by not being able to say what you want when you want, I entirely lack sympathy.
    - katbyte 13y ago
      >If your friends at work refuse to meet you away from work for your crucial sex talk, they may be uncomfortable with it too. If someone is uncomfortable with something they should speak up. If someone says they are uncomfortable with something that should be respected (within reason). Its not that hard when everyone just behaves as adults instead of spoiled sheltered children who cannot communicate with each other
scythe 13y ago
>To their detriment. In a world where sexism is still a huge problem, it seems that forcing students into a monosexual environment would only contribute to stunting their social development even more. Compare, for example, the relative incidence of sexism in a heavily male field like programming or philosophy with the amount of sexism in a gender-integrated field like biology. This idea of separating students by gender to increase performance is really treating them like little test-taking machines: students, by and large, do not choose to take gender-segregated courses unless their parents require it of them. They're human beings. They have a fundamental right to develop in a natural social environment. And, like it or not, schools provide a large proportion of a child's social interaction, which isn't going to change anytime soon. But most importantly, any improvements are highly controversial and tend to disappear once researchers attempt to correct for confounding. "The Pseudoscience of Single-sex Schooling", Halpern et al, Science 2011: http://womenstudies.wisc.edu/documents/ScienceSingle-sex09-23-11.pdf http://womenstudies.wisc.edu/documents/ScienceSingle-sex09-2... The most successful school systems in the world, in Northern Europe and East Asia, are all coeducational. There are also a whole lot of interventions that don't require such drastic measures. Cracked of all publications wrote a surprisingly well-researched article on the subject: http://www.cracked.com/article_19254_5-surprisingly-easy-ways-to-make-kids-smarter.html http://www.cracked.com/article_19254_5-surprisingly-easy-way... Using a microphone and turning on the lights is a far less severe encroachment on students' freedom than, well, segregation. Seriously.
- anaptdemise 13y ago
  The reason I did not link to a specific article is that there are so many on both sides of the debate. However, my experience and the experience of my female friends that underwent similar education are all positive on both sides. Also, I am willing to bet that the top US schools are mostly private and mostly single-sex or segregated. They are in my area.
  - pyre 13y ago
    Well, the choice doesn't have to be between a good single-sex school or a crappy co-ed school.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
rayiner 13y ago
> Being a women of breading age, she was specifically asked if she intended to have children in the next 5 years which was a non-starter. These were small firms that couldn't afford to have a junior partner off for maternity leave That's sexism, plain and simple. Who are they to assume she's going to take extended maternity leave and be the primary care giver? They would never ask that of a man (most male law partners are married and have kids), because they would as assume that his wife would take care of the kids. That's sexism.
- Camillo 13y ago
  What is sexist, the fact that men and women handle the work/home balance in very different ways, or the company's recognition of that fact?
  - rayiner 13y ago
    The company's assumption that the stereotype of how women handle work life balance applies to any specific woman. That's pretty much the definition of sexism. Also, the fact that a company would never ask if a man had any time consumer hobbies or other sorts of things that might prevent them giving 100% to their jobs, because when kids and women aren't involved, companies generally assume that their employees are grownups and can balance their various obligations like grownups.
    - prodigal_erik 13y ago
      If I had any other time-consuming hobby and started phoning it in at work, the company could tell me I may be dismissed if I don't shape up. Only parents get the nuclear option, and thankfully most of them don't abuse the possibility very heavily.
      - rayiner 13y ago
        That's because parenthood ensures that companies have future customers, while hobbies don't. Facebook stock isn't worth much if all the 13-25 year olds that buy the crap advertisers peddle on it is a shrinking demographic!
roguecoder 13y ago
Every study I've seen on outcomes either finds no effect or a negative effect for boys' performance in all-male schooling. It is beneficial to girls, but currently in America all students, boys and girls, perform better when there are more girls in the classroom.

Jach 13y ago

As this Hungarian illustrates, getting the government involved to guarantee these sorts of "anti-discrimination" rules can lead to a very bad outcome: http://www.arcticstartup.com/2012/01/09/this-is-why-i-dont-give-you-a-job http://www.arcticstartup.com/2012/01/09/this-is-why-i-dont-g... (Too bad the guy's blog has died, he had some more good rants on it that made me very glad not to live in Hungary.)

whiterabbit2 13y ago
I looked up Hungarian laws, and the problem is not the government involvement, but that there is a huge difference between maternity and paternity leave (3 years vs 5 days). This somehow doesn't fit "anti-discrimination", as it's quite the opposite.

pessimizer 13y ago

>if you start giving men maternity leave in the same way as women I agree. >Normal banter between men about women kept on the "acceptable in a sitcom" when not directed at any specific women, in my view is not sexual harassment, but clearly some people disagree with that. I definitely disagree with that at work. If you want to discuss your sexuality, comment on people's body parts, or articulate your unified theory on the differences in the natures of men and women, get some friends. People have to work in order to eat - allow women (and men) to get through it without having to constantly bite their tongues or else be seen as the problem. We've made a decision as a society that racial, sexual and religious discrimination are problems at work. Find another subject.

anaptdemise 13y ago
> allow women (and men) to get through it without having to constantly bite their tongues or else be seen as the problem Right. Bite my tongue and put on the kid gloves. Wouldn't want to discuss last nights episode of Game of Thrones in the break room, less be seen as a sexist jerk. People do have friends at work, and normal human interactions do take place there.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  People also have sex with people they know from work. Should they have it at work? If you can't find something to talk about at work other than how hot some naked woman on tv was last night, they're not giving you enough to do. If your friends at work refuse to meet you away from work for your crucial sex talk, they may be uncomfortable with it too. If your self-righteousness is because you feel put upon by not being able to say what you want when you want, I entirely lack sympathy.
  - katbyte 13y ago
    >If your friends at work refuse to meet you away from work for your crucial sex talk, they may be uncomfortable with it too. If someone is uncomfortable with something they should speak up. If someone says they are uncomfortable with something that should be respected (within reason). Its not that hard when everyone just behaves as adults instead of spoiled sheltered children who cannot communicate with each other

scythe 13y ago

>To their detriment. In a world where sexism is still a huge problem, it seems that forcing students into a monosexual environment would only contribute to stunting their social development even more. Compare, for example, the relative incidence of sexism in a heavily male field like programming or philosophy with the amount of sexism in a gender-integrated field like biology. This idea of separating students by gender to increase performance is really treating them like little test-taking machines: students, by and large, do not choose to take gender-segregated courses unless their parents require it of them. They're human beings. They have a fundamental right to develop in a natural social environment. And, like it or not, schools provide a large proportion of a child's social interaction, which isn't going to change anytime soon. But most importantly, any improvements are highly controversial and tend to disappear once researchers attempt to correct for confounding. "The Pseudoscience of Single-sex Schooling", Halpern et al, Science 2011: http://womenstudies.wisc.edu/documents/ScienceSingle-sex09-23-11.pdf http://womenstudies.wisc.edu/documents/ScienceSingle-sex09-2... The most successful school systems in the world, in Northern Europe and East Asia, are all coeducational. There are also a whole lot of interventions that don't require such drastic measures. Cracked of all publications wrote a surprisingly well-researched article on the subject: http://www.cracked.com/article_19254_5-surprisingly-easy-ways-to-make-kids-smarter.html http://www.cracked.com/article_19254_5-surprisingly-easy-way... Using a microphone and turning on the lights is a far less severe encroachment on students' freedom than, well, segregation. Seriously.

anaptdemise 13y ago
The reason I did not link to a specific article is that there are so many on both sides of the debate. However, my experience and the experience of my female friends that underwent similar education are all positive on both sides. Also, I am willing to bet that the top US schools are mostly private and mostly single-sex or segregated. They are in my area.
- pyre 13y ago
  Well, the choice doesn't have to be between a good single-sex school or a crappy co-ed school.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

rayiner 13y ago

> Being a women of breading age, she was specifically asked if she intended to have children in the next 5 years which was a non-starter. These were small firms that couldn't afford to have a junior partner off for maternity leave That's sexism, plain and simple. Who are they to assume she's going to take extended maternity leave and be the primary care giver? They would never ask that of a man (most male law partners are married and have kids), because they would as assume that his wife would take care of the kids. That's sexism.

Camillo 13y ago
What is sexist, the fact that men and women handle the work/home balance in very different ways, or the company's recognition of that fact?
- rayiner 13y ago
  The company's assumption that the stereotype of how women handle work life balance applies to any specific woman. That's pretty much the definition of sexism. Also, the fact that a company would never ask if a man had any time consumer hobbies or other sorts of things that might prevent them giving 100% to their jobs, because when kids and women aren't involved, companies generally assume that their employees are grownups and can balance their various obligations like grownups.
  - prodigal_erik 13y ago
    If I had any other time-consuming hobby and started phoning it in at work, the company could tell me I may be dismissed if I don't shape up. Only parents get the nuclear option, and thankfully most of them don't abuse the possibility very heavily.
    - rayiner 13y ago
      That's because parenthood ensures that companies have future customers, while hobbies don't. Facebook stock isn't worth much if all the 13-25 year olds that buy the crap advertisers peddle on it is a shrinking demographic!

roguecoder 13y ago

Every study I've seen on outcomes either finds no effect or a negative effect for boys' performance in all-male schooling. It is beneficial to girls, but currently in America all students, boys and girls, perform better when there are more girls in the classroom.