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Three More MMO Developers Receive Letters from Treehouse Attorneys

79 points by bigstartups 13y ago

bigstartups 13y ago
I've been contact by about a half dozen small game developers in addition to myself. I can only assume the true number is many times that possibly in the hundreds. These scum have moved on from litigating agains the big players in the industry to trying to extort the smallest and most vulnerable developers. It's truly sickening...
- tankbot 13y ago
  Disgusting, but it's only natural. The little guys don't have the resources to fight it out in court and keep their heads above water, so trolls can extort a small settlement or licensing fee from them. Ironically analogous to trolls in fairy tales that would extort characters under dubious pretense. Trolls are weak against fire and acid. Just sayin'.
- momerath 13y ago
  Indeed, hypothetically, if a tiny game developer had gotten such a letter, they would probably be asking their friendly lawyer to find a moment to advise them, rather than saying anything publicly. I suspect a great many such extortion letters have been sent; let's hope they sent so many that the combined defense will be enough.
snowwrestler 13y ago
Treehouse? These guys or someone different? http://teamtreehouse.com/ http://teamtreehouse.com/
- GuiA 13y ago
  First paragraph: "GamePolitics has learned that at least three more independent development studios received letters from the law firm representing Treehouse Avatar Technologies" Treehouse Avatar Technologies != Team Treehouse
- ddeck 13y ago
  No, these guys: https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=7984707 https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDt...
- jcromartie 13y ago
  I also thought of this indie board game: http://store.looneylabs.com/Treehouse http://store.looneylabs.com/Treehouse
ddeck 13y ago
The patent referred to: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8,180,858.PN.&OS=PN/8,180,858&RS=PN/8,180,858 http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H...
- Steko 13y ago
  Filing date: November 30, 2010 A character having a plurality of attributes is created by a network user while within a character-enabled network site. Each attribute is defined by at least one of either audio data and/or visual image data and is selected by the user from a plurality of attributes presented to the user through a user interface. The combination of attributes defines a persona for the character. At least one of either an audio presentation and/or a visual image presentation is provided to the user interface. The presentations presented are selected from a plurality of presentations based on the character's persona. Data related to character attributes are stored in a database. One or more of the presentations presented to the user may be interactive, in that it allows for the user to make choices. In response to a user's interaction with the interactive presentation, additional audio presentation and/or a visual image presentation is provided to the user interface. Data indicative of user interaction with the interactive presentations is also stored in a database. What a fucking joke.
  - notahacker 13y ago
    Trust me, it gets worse: All in all, contemporary web sites are static in nature in that they fail to take into consideration the individuality of their visitors and instead present to each visitor a substantially identical audio/visual experience. As a result, visitors to contemporary web sites often become bored with the web site in a relatively short time thereby reducing visitor time on a web site and the possibility of frequent, repeat visits by the user. It's slightly worrying that patent lawyers and people working at the patent office don't seem to have had access to the internet recently.
- nknighthb 13y ago
  I can read that patent one of two ways. Either it's perfectly novel gibberish, or most of its claims are preempted by Meridian 59. Or possibly even some more limited early-90s graphical MUDs.
robomartin 13y ago
This is the kind of crap that makes me not want to be in the software business. Every time I read about a software patent incident and go off to read the patent my jaw drops to the floor. None. Not one of the hundreds of software patents I have ever reviewed should have been granted. Not one. These things are not inventions. They are implementations based on choices and decisions made by an individual or a team. The patent office is a lunatic asylum. Unbelievable. I really think we are at a point where the tech community needs to send a super-strong message to both create awareness and catalyze rapid change. This issue could be resolved in one session of Congress with the invalidation of all software patents, current and future. What to do? All web companies and game developers ought to agree on a date and have a carefully crafted message displayed to every one of their users. The message should be blocking. In other words, for a full minute (a minute of silence for the killing of innovation) you cannot play your game, cannot search the web, cannot use a service, etc. Taken further, those who have the balls would suspend the entirety of their services for an hour. How much of a stir would be created if Google, Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, and others all displayed a page explaining the problem and demanding action for a full hour. I can't think of a better way to force the issue and quite literally have every human being on this planet and every media outlet pickup the topic. Everyone would learn about the damage being caused by software patents. Politicians would have no choice but to seriously address the issue. I would further suggest that this protest become a monthly event until such time as the issue is dealt with sensibly. Can this be organized? What else could we do? It really is time to force a national dialog about this. How much more of this do you guys want to endure?
- ultramundane828 13y ago
  I love this idea, and think it's the winning move. A problem I see is in the details, where I wouldn't want to lose X million dollars just to force a dialogue. If I were the entire decision-making branch of Amazon, I would only dedicate X million dollars to something guaranteed to produce change, like deploying numerous robots (or whatever).
  - chao- 13y ago
    The other caveat is that, although a number of bigger companies have gotten on board the anti-troll train lately (particular props to Newegg and Rackspace), the most popular of services from the largest of companies already have substantial legal teams. They run a higher risk (e.g. Amazon losing sales) for a problem they have already "solved" for themselves, albeit with an equally-expensive solution of a legal team.
jmduke 13y ago
To clarify: the Treehouse in this article is not http://teamtreehouse.com/ http://teamtreehouse.com/, the technology education startup founded by Ryan Carson (whose posts make it to HN rather often.)
- pvnick 13y ago
  Oh thank God. I really like him.
- famo 13y ago
  I'm surprised Ryan hasn't received an infringement letter from Treehouse over the name Treehouse.
- jimrhoskins 13y ago
  This made me look twice, as I work for (Team) Treehouse. Coincidentally, the last company I worked for was called Avatar International, so the company in the article "Treehouse Avatar Technologies" made me do an extra double take.
rdl 13y ago
I wonder if it would prejudice the courts against you later if your response were simply a timestamped picture of a very X-rated "furry" or other x-rated avatar from an early-1990s MUD or something.
Lasher 13y ago
I've been playing and running text-based MMOS (MUDs) that do this same thing since the early 1990s. Probably a naive question but isn't there anything that can be done to void these by proving that this was being done on the internet for long before they came around?
josephwegner 13y ago
Man, I used to love both Minions of Mirth and A Tale in the Desert. The management at Prairie Games had kinda gone to hell, but the original founders were really pretty awesome people. Such a bummer to see great games get bullied.
wyck 13y ago
Someone needs to send Judge Otis D. after Lerner, David, Littenberg, Krumholz, & Menlik, LLP. Ref: http://www.popehat.com/2013/05/06/does-prenda-believe-in-no-win-scenarios-because-judge-wright-just-gave-them-one/ http://www.popehat.com/2013/05/06/does-prenda-believe-in-no-...
Hoff 13y ago
From 1994, if it helps... "ACM Flight Simulator, revision 4.7 What is ACM? ------------ ACM is a LAN-oriented, multiplayer aerial combat simulation. My main design objective was to provide source code that could be easily compiled and executed on a wide variety of platforms. To that end, acm is written entirely in C, exploiting the programming features of Unix, X11, and the BSD socket interface. Players engage in air to air combat against one another using heat seeking missiles and cannons. ACM is implemented as two programs. The first, named "acm", is a small program that, when invoked, starts a flight session on a given workstation. The second component, named "acms", is a server process that manages the multiplayer environment. It also manages the flight simulation and display management that is required. Most players will prefer to run the acms process on a back-end server system on their local area network. Players at client workstations can then invoke the acm program to begin play."
smegel 13y ago
> "Methods for Presenting Data Over a Network Based Network User Choices and Collecting Real-time Data Related to Said Choices." Maybe someone should just patent the general method for the operation of a computer by feeding it a series of instructions combined with user input and a way to present output, and we can all go and start new careers.

79 points by bigstartups 13y ago

I've been contact by about a half dozen small game developers in addition to myself. I can only assume the true number is many times that possibly in the hundreds. These scum have moved on from litigating agains the big players in the industry to trying to extort the smallest and most vulnerable developers. It's truly sickening...

tankbot 13y ago
Disgusting, but it's only natural. The little guys don't have the resources to fight it out in court and keep their heads above water, so trolls can extort a small settlement or licensing fee from them. Ironically analogous to trolls in fairy tales that would extort characters under dubious pretense. Trolls are weak against fire and acid. Just sayin'.
momerath 13y ago
Indeed, hypothetically, if a tiny game developer had gotten such a letter, they would probably be asking their friendly lawyer to find a moment to advise them, rather than saying anything publicly. I suspect a great many such extortion letters have been sent; let's hope they sent so many that the combined defense will be enough.

snowwrestler 13y ago

Treehouse? These guys or someone different? http://teamtreehouse.com/ http://teamtreehouse.com/

GuiA 13y ago
First paragraph: "GamePolitics has learned that at least three more independent development studios received letters from the law firm representing Treehouse Avatar Technologies" Treehouse Avatar Technologies != Team Treehouse
ddeck 13y ago
No, these guys: https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=7984707 https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDt...
jcromartie 13y ago
I also thought of this indie board game: http://store.looneylabs.com/Treehouse http://store.looneylabs.com/Treehouse

ddeck 13y ago

The patent referred to: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8,180,858.PN.&OS=PN/8,180,858&RS=PN/8,180,858 http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H...

Steko 13y ago
Filing date: November 30, 2010 A character having a plurality of attributes is created by a network user while within a character-enabled network site. Each attribute is defined by at least one of either audio data and/or visual image data and is selected by the user from a plurality of attributes presented to the user through a user interface. The combination of attributes defines a persona for the character. At least one of either an audio presentation and/or a visual image presentation is provided to the user interface. The presentations presented are selected from a plurality of presentations based on the character's persona. Data related to character attributes are stored in a database. One or more of the presentations presented to the user may be interactive, in that it allows for the user to make choices. In response to a user's interaction with the interactive presentation, additional audio presentation and/or a visual image presentation is provided to the user interface. Data indicative of user interaction with the interactive presentations is also stored in a database. What a fucking joke.
- notahacker 13y ago
  Trust me, it gets worse: All in all, contemporary web sites are static in nature in that they fail to take into consideration the individuality of their visitors and instead present to each visitor a substantially identical audio/visual experience. As a result, visitors to contemporary web sites often become bored with the web site in a relatively short time thereby reducing visitor time on a web site and the possibility of frequent, repeat visits by the user. It's slightly worrying that patent lawyers and people working at the patent office don't seem to have had access to the internet recently.
nknighthb 13y ago
I can read that patent one of two ways. Either it's perfectly novel gibberish, or most of its claims are preempted by Meridian 59. Or possibly even some more limited early-90s graphical MUDs.

robomartin 13y ago

This is the kind of crap that makes me not want to be in the software business. Every time I read about a software patent incident and go off to read the patent my jaw drops to the floor. None. Not one of the hundreds of software patents I have ever reviewed should have been granted. Not one. These things are not inventions. They are implementations based on choices and decisions made by an individual or a team. The patent office is a lunatic asylum. Unbelievable. I really think we are at a point where the tech community needs to send a super-strong message to both create awareness and catalyze rapid change. This issue could be resolved in one session of Congress with the invalidation of all software patents, current and future. What to do? All web companies and game developers ought to agree on a date and have a carefully crafted message displayed to every one of their users. The message should be blocking. In other words, for a full minute (a minute of silence for the killing of innovation) you cannot play your game, cannot search the web, cannot use a service, etc. Taken further, those who have the balls would suspend the entirety of their services for an hour. How much of a stir would be created if Google, Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, and others all displayed a page explaining the problem and demanding action for a full hour. I can't think of a better way to force the issue and quite literally have every human being on this planet and every media outlet pickup the topic. Everyone would learn about the damage being caused by software patents. Politicians would have no choice but to seriously address the issue. I would further suggest that this protest become a monthly event until such time as the issue is dealt with sensibly. Can this be organized? What else could we do? It really is time to force a national dialog about this. How much more of this do you guys want to endure?

ultramundane828 13y ago
I love this idea, and think it's the winning move. A problem I see is in the details, where I wouldn't want to lose X million dollars just to force a dialogue. If I were the entire decision-making branch of Amazon, I would only dedicate X million dollars to something guaranteed to produce change, like deploying numerous robots (or whatever).
- chao- 13y ago
  The other caveat is that, although a number of bigger companies have gotten on board the anti-troll train lately (particular props to Newegg and Rackspace), the most popular of services from the largest of companies already have substantial legal teams. They run a higher risk (e.g. Amazon losing sales) for a problem they have already "solved" for themselves, albeit with an equally-expensive solution of a legal team.

jmduke 13y ago

To clarify: the Treehouse in this article is not http://teamtreehouse.com/ http://teamtreehouse.com/, the technology education startup founded by Ryan Carson (whose posts make it to HN rather often.)

pvnick 13y ago
Oh thank God. I really like him.
famo 13y ago
I'm surprised Ryan hasn't received an infringement letter from Treehouse over the name Treehouse.
jimrhoskins 13y ago
This made me look twice, as I work for (Team) Treehouse. Coincidentally, the last company I worked for was called Avatar International, so the company in the article "Treehouse Avatar Technologies" made me do an extra double take.

rdl 13y ago

I wonder if it would prejudice the courts against you later if your response were simply a timestamped picture of a very X-rated "furry" or other x-rated avatar from an early-1990s MUD or something.

Lasher 13y ago

I've been playing and running text-based MMOS (MUDs) that do this same thing since the early 1990s. Probably a naive question but isn't there anything that can be done to void these by proving that this was being done on the internet for long before they came around?

josephwegner 13y ago

Man, I used to love both Minions of Mirth and A Tale in the Desert. The management at Prairie Games had kinda gone to hell, but the original founders were really pretty awesome people. Such a bummer to see great games get bullied.

wyck 13y ago

Someone needs to send Judge Otis D. after Lerner, David, Littenberg, Krumholz, & Menlik, LLP. Ref: http://www.popehat.com/2013/05/06/does-prenda-believe-in-no-win-scenarios-because-judge-wright-just-gave-them-one/ http://www.popehat.com/2013/05/06/does-prenda-believe-in-no-...

Hoff 13y ago

From 1994, if it helps... "ACM Flight Simulator, revision 4.7 What is ACM? ------------ ACM is a LAN-oriented, multiplayer aerial combat simulation. My main design objective was to provide source code that could be easily compiled and executed on a wide variety of platforms. To that end, acm is written entirely in C, exploiting the programming features of Unix, X11, and the BSD socket interface. Players engage in air to air combat against one another using heat seeking missiles and cannons. ACM is implemented as two programs. The first, named "acm", is a small program that, when invoked, starts a flight session on a given workstation. The second component, named "acms", is a server process that manages the multiplayer environment. It also manages the flight simulation and display management that is required. Most players will prefer to run the acms process on a back-end server system on their local area network. Players at client workstations can then invoke the acm program to begin play."

smegel 13y ago

> "Methods for Presenting Data Over a Network Based Network User Choices and Collecting Real-time Data Related to Said Choices." Maybe someone should just patent the general method for the operation of a computer by feeding it a series of instructions combined with user input and a way to present output, and we can all go and start new careers.