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So you would rather have him flee to countries that would extradite him to the US so he can be tortured in solitary like Manning?

grumpygremlin 13y ago
Stop applying the ter 'toture' to every corrrctional policy you disagree with.
mpyne 13y ago
I would rather he come home so that he can undergo the normal civilian legal process he claims to want involved in the law enforcement activities the U.S. government seeks to undertake. Just like Thomas Drake, that other NSA whistleblower, who didn't flee and didn't get 'tortured in solitary'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake
- logn 13y ago
  I don't want that. I want him to continue leaking this information. From all accounts, this is the tip of the iceberg we've heard so far. Snowden might have no intention of telling us about the extent of everything, but I at least want to hear everything unfold. The US court systems are not a place to get justice and enlighten the public. They're a place to pay huge legal fees to hopefully not end up dead or in a cell, especially in a case such as Sowdens'. One of his main goals for leaking all this is that the public had no idea of our laws because they were created in secret courts. He's supposed to now trust lady justice to reveal the truth?
  - mpyne 13y ago
    > I want him to continue leaking this information. Hasn't he repeatedly said that it's already all leaked? His friends on the outside would be able to hold the threat of that against the U.S. government, especially if he were mistreated in prison. > One of his main goals for leaking all this is that the public had no idea of our laws because they were created in secret courts. The public may have no idea of the laws, but it's not because they come from secret courts. The law itself has given the executive the power being used here. Metadata collection itself is legal (for decades), and so is collection of foreign surveillance (again, for decades). The only difference now is that the extra controls added to the modern equivalents of ECHELON, Carnivore, etc. have convinced the FISC that they comply with the public law where previous versions did not, but the FISC did not create any law by themselves. I think you far overestimate the give-a-shit of the public at large to things like this. The public is accustomed from years of wiretaps, pen registers, cell phone tower searches, TV shows, subpoenas, and the fact that the NSA and CIA have existed for and been doing stuff like this for decades into assuming that there is some way for government investigators to get their hands on exactly this kind of data. Just look at the arraignment for Aaron Hernandez. Why should people be shocked that the government can get your Facebook likes given what they were able to find about the murder of Lloyd within only a week. At this point Snowden is only hurting his cause by making the story about himself and not about how the government has surveillance ability that is different in scale, if not actually in kind. The longer he drifts in with organizations that the public you're referring to feel are threats and enemies, the less likely it is that the same public will trust the message he's trying to convey.
- bobwaycott 13y ago
  Do you want him to do that before he has completed leaking all the information the American electorate needs to be an informed body politic, or after he has completed the leaks and provided American citizens all of the information he believes they need to know before he is potentially forever silenced?
  - mpyne 13y ago
    He said it's already all leaked. After all, that's what Greenwald mentioned after Putin mentioned the requirement that Snowden knock it off when the topic of Russian asylum was first broached. The delay now is up to news outlets to maximize the news value, not Snowden himself.

grumpygremlin 13y ago

Stop applying the ter 'toture' to every corrrctional policy you disagree with.

mpyne 13y ago

I would rather he come home so that he can undergo the normal civilian legal process he claims to want involved in the law enforcement activities the U.S. government seeks to undertake. Just like Thomas Drake, that other NSA whistleblower, who didn't flee and didn't get 'tortured in solitary'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake

logn 13y ago
I don't want that. I want him to continue leaking this information. From all accounts, this is the tip of the iceberg we've heard so far. Snowden might have no intention of telling us about the extent of everything, but I at least want to hear everything unfold. The US court systems are not a place to get justice and enlighten the public. They're a place to pay huge legal fees to hopefully not end up dead or in a cell, especially in a case such as Sowdens'. One of his main goals for leaking all this is that the public had no idea of our laws because they were created in secret courts. He's supposed to now trust lady justice to reveal the truth?
- mpyne 13y ago
  > I want him to continue leaking this information. Hasn't he repeatedly said that it's already all leaked? His friends on the outside would be able to hold the threat of that against the U.S. government, especially if he were mistreated in prison. > One of his main goals for leaking all this is that the public had no idea of our laws because they were created in secret courts. The public may have no idea of the laws, but it's not because they come from secret courts. The law itself has given the executive the power being used here. Metadata collection itself is legal (for decades), and so is collection of foreign surveillance (again, for decades). The only difference now is that the extra controls added to the modern equivalents of ECHELON, Carnivore, etc. have convinced the FISC that they comply with the public law where previous versions did not, but the FISC did not create any law by themselves. I think you far overestimate the give-a-shit of the public at large to things like this. The public is accustomed from years of wiretaps, pen registers, cell phone tower searches, TV shows, subpoenas, and the fact that the NSA and CIA have existed for and been doing stuff like this for decades into assuming that there is some way for government investigators to get their hands on exactly this kind of data. Just look at the arraignment for Aaron Hernandez. Why should people be shocked that the government can get your Facebook likes given what they were able to find about the murder of Lloyd within only a week. At this point Snowden is only hurting his cause by making the story about himself and not about how the government has surveillance ability that is different in scale, if not actually in kind. The longer he drifts in with organizations that the public you're referring to feel are threats and enemies, the less likely it is that the same public will trust the message he's trying to convey.
bobwaycott 13y ago
Do you want him to do that before he has completed leaking all the information the American electorate needs to be an informed body politic, or after he has completed the leaks and provided American citizens all of the information he believes they need to know before he is potentially forever silenced?
- mpyne 13y ago
  He said it's already all leaked. After all, that's what Greenwald mentioned after Putin mentioned the requirement that Snowden knock it off when the topic of Russian asylum was first broached. The delay now is up to news outlets to maximize the news value, not Snowden himself.