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I can relate so much. This is so true. Three years ago I was in a position where the only way to get into the business was freelancing. I quit my job at a place

I can relate so much. This is so true. Three years ago I was in a position where the only way to get into the business was freelancing. I quit my job at a place that I'm so embarrassed to have worked for I won't mention it (it was fast good) and started freelancing. I did it for two years and still take on side work now after getting a full time position as a developer at a tech company. I was lucky to make that transition and even luckier to have survived as a freelancer. The Internet using public is changing. Websites are commodities to most people. They don't want to pay and its a huge hustle to get a gig that pays what you're worth. People see the free website they get with hosting and assume you should be able to do it as cheaply, quickly, and the only reason they come to you sometimes is because they just don't want to use the free website builder. They think your job is as valuable as the free site builder and often see you as a mechanical Turk that would just do what they'd do with the free tool. I see the future of indie web dev being in services, not website design and development.

rodly 13y ago
It doesn't matter what the layman price website building at. If it did, gasoline would be 5 cents and movie tickets would be free with your $10 popcorn.
alinajaf 13y ago
I think there's a distinction to be made between a web site and web application developer. One builds posters on the internet and the other builds software that just happens to use HTTP. I've found the latter to be considerably more lucrative and engaging. The work I've done ranges from language teaching software to automated trading bots for second hand books. The market for this sort of work is so screamingly hot right now that if I did all the work that my current clients are asking for in series, I'd be booked into early 2015. And that at a daily rate that the me of three years ago would have trouble even asking for at the negotiation table.
- bpatrianakos 13y ago
  That could also have to do with location. I'm in Chicago so I have to admit you're right and that market is hot. I think the trouble there is breaking into it. Toward the end of my run as a full time freelancer I tried to get into web applications. The trouble was that I still got a lot of people with an idea for the next Facebook but could barely use MS Word and thought a web developer was the same job as the guy who fixes your PC when it crashes. I was able to build a few web apps but budgets and preparation were so awful that gaining credibility was tough. I could build a great web app but not for $2k and a Month's time. So many people think they can hire you to build an eBay competitor and that the site will magically just create money by simply existing. You're right that there's a huge market now but I would qualify that statement and add that the future is in specialized web applications for people with domain knowledge and an actual business plan. I might have been doing something wrong not to find those people or maybe I was unlucky.
  - alinajaf 13y ago
    I've found that I make a lot of good contacts at my local Ruby user group and through just helping people as much as I can via twitter, mailing lists etc. One problem I have that's similar to what you're talking about is people either have a huge budget and an endless supply of soul-crushing and pointless work for me to do, or they just can't afford me at my rates. More recently I'm finding a sort of sweet spot in bootstrapped companies that have some revenue and can afford to bring me in for one or two weeks per month. Those are my ideal clients, as I'm not very good at dealing with government/BigCo. I love talking about this stuff, so if you want to talk shop more at some point feel free to ping me via email (in profile).

rodly 13y ago

It doesn't matter what the layman price website building at. If it did, gasoline would be 5 cents and movie tickets would be free with your $10 popcorn.

alinajaf 13y ago

I think there's a distinction to be made between a web site and web application developer. One builds posters on the internet and the other builds software that just happens to use HTTP. I've found the latter to be considerably more lucrative and engaging. The work I've done ranges from language teaching software to automated trading bots for second hand books. The market for this sort of work is so screamingly hot right now that if I did all the work that my current clients are asking for in series, I'd be booked into early 2015. And that at a daily rate that the me of three years ago would have trouble even asking for at the negotiation table.

bpatrianakos 13y ago
That could also have to do with location. I'm in Chicago so I have to admit you're right and that market is hot. I think the trouble there is breaking into it. Toward the end of my run as a full time freelancer I tried to get into web applications. The trouble was that I still got a lot of people with an idea for the next Facebook but could barely use MS Word and thought a web developer was the same job as the guy who fixes your PC when it crashes. I was able to build a few web apps but budgets and preparation were so awful that gaining credibility was tough. I could build a great web app but not for $2k and a Month's time. So many people think they can hire you to build an eBay competitor and that the site will magically just create money by simply existing. You're right that there's a huge market now but I would qualify that statement and add that the future is in specialized web applications for people with domain knowledge and an actual business plan. I might have been doing something wrong not to find those people or maybe I was unlucky.
- alinajaf 13y ago
  I've found that I make a lot of good contacts at my local Ruby user group and through just helping people as much as I can via twitter, mailing lists etc. One problem I have that's similar to what you're talking about is people either have a huge budget and an endless supply of soul-crushing and pointless work for me to do, or they just can't afford me at my rates. More recently I'm finding a sort of sweet spot in bootstrapped companies that have some revenue and can afford to bring me in for one or two weeks per month. Those are my ideal clients, as I'm not very good at dealing with government/BigCo. I love talking about this stuff, so if you want to talk shop more at some point feel free to ping me via email (in profile).