4 ms·
going to try for devil's advocate angle. could there be a case where the parties in a conversation are legitimate suspects? in such a case, why does it matter
by SonicSoul 13y ago
going to try for devil's advocate angle.
could there be a case where the parties in a conversation are legitimate suspects? in such a case, why does it matter if it's Microsoft or some other private company that the NSA hires to break encryption?
it seems that the article is presenting the Microsoft / NSA relationship, and later states “If you look at what happened when Bush, Cheney and General Hayden – who was head of the NSA at the time – deliberately violated the law to eavesdrop on Americans without a warrant" which hints at a vague conclusion that Microsoft is helping to spy on citizens without a warrant.
possibly i missed something, so is the point that Microsoft (or any private company) should not do any work for NSA, or that it should not do it without a warrant, or that we can't trust it with anything because it did some work for the NSA? Or is that the details are still not disclosed so it's pure speculation?
- fetbaffe 13y agoIt is important for me as a customer of Microsoft. This means I will end all future contracts with them, because I'm not a US citizen. NSA needs no warrant to wiretap me as a European and I'm not going to send my money to Microsoft so they can use that money to help a foreign government agency , that I or any of my fellow citizens have no oversight over, to spy on me. That would be totally absurd.
- tootie 13y agoOf course. If you are a legitimate suspect, any local police department can get a warrant to go inside your house and put your underpants in plastic bags and take them away. For that matter, they can cuff you and put you in jail. The question is what is the NSA doing without a warrant or rubber-stamped, secret, blanket warrants.
- SonicSoul 13y agocorrect. i'm just having a hard time with the point (or lack there of) in this post.. as far as i can tell it's something like: NSA = PRISM, therefore any company doing work for NSA = evil.
- tootie 13y agoThe NSA is skating on very thin constitutional ice, but honestly they haven't really done anything that even qualifies as evil. The KGB did this kind of spying, but they did for the express purpose of sending dissenters to gulag. I haven't seen so much as a credible accusation that the NSA are doing anything other than their duly authorized mission.
- fetbaffe 13y agoThis is the same as the British Stamp Act from the American Revolutionary War. If the Stamp Act was an argument for revolution because it was evil, this is too.
- tootie 13y agoThe difference is that the colonists had no recourse. "No taxation without representation" and all that. Without sending delegates to parliament, they had no channels to complain through, so rebellion was the only option. We could end the NSA completely by voting for candidates who support that.
- fetbaffe 13y agoI can't vote in the US as a resident in Sweden, so I'm in the exact same positions as the first colonists in America. I guess my only option now is to rebel. But sure for those living in the US they can do that. And they did that with Obama. However that just increased the surveillance.
- giardini 13y ago"...honestly they haven't really done anything that even qualifies as evil." Firstly, how can we be certain? Suppose, for a moment, I had the data that the NSA has. To whom could I sell that data? If I could prove to questioners that I had such data, to what ends might they go to get it from me(Ans. there are entities that would take it by force and then kill me and my family to remove the traces)? NSA is sitting on a goldmine. Many, if not most, large corporations, businessmen, academics, organized crime members, politicians, or bureaucrats would sell their home (and possibly their family into slavery) to obtain that information. How can the NSA possibly ensure that it is safe ? How can they ensure that their employees do not pass some of that data to the above? What if a significant chunk of that data is copied and enters the black market? How could it possibly be recaptured? Snowden has, by example, shown that all the above can and indeed did occur. As we speak there are undoubtedly hundreds, if not thousands, of individuals who are attempting to gain access to the NSA's treasure vaults. Some groups are smarter and better organized than the NSA. It's merely a matter of time before huge leaks occur. They may or may not be leaked publicly. Neglect can be criminal too.
- flyinRyan 13y ago>could there be a case where the parties in a conversation are legitimate suspects? It doesn't matter if they are. No one expects coffee shops to put microphones at every table on the off chance that a terrorist plot is planned there (how many mob hits could have been prevented back in the day). We shouldn't accept the government listening in on digital communication just because it's easy.
- SonicSoul 13y agoare you saying Microsoft helped to wiretap email?
- flyinRyan 13y agoThat's what you got from what I said? I'm saying that people think because communication is digital, and digital is easy to listen in on that we should be listening in on it. I say fuck that. Today it would be easy to listen in on anyone anywhere with a little hardware. Easy is not a justification for doing something.