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> I'd be really curious if there's actually something physiologically different between our brains? I really, really doubt it. Part of learning to do anything

> I'd be really curious if there's actually something physiologically different between our brains? I really, really doubt it. Part of learning to do anything abstract is that eventually, the abstraction becomes real to you. Money, musical notes, a "for loop", at some point, the abstraction becomes as real to you as a piece of wood you can knock on. All human brains do this, all the time, for everything. I bet you don't know what the little sticky-up-pipe thing on the top of your house does, but plumbers do. It's a thing and it has a name. It's hilarious to me to imagine that "online stuff" is special when the fact is that most people do not see the real world at all through the massive fog of abstractions we all live in. Most people don't know where their water comes from or where their shit goes to either. Do we call them "on plumbing" or "off plumbing" people? It's just practice, context, familiarity and importance.

nitrogen 13y ago
No plumber thinks they live in the pipes, but "online" people can feel like they live in a separate place called "online".
- xyzzy123 13y ago
  That makes it a privileged delusion I suppose, as opposed to people who can read and temporarily relate to Julius Caesar. I suppose those people live in "Reading". P.S: I do think things are radically different now, I don't think people or brains are.
  - nitrogen 13y ago
    Who are you to decide what is a delusion and what is not? Reality is what doesn't go away when you stop believing in it.
    - xyzzy123 13y ago
      My original point was, and is, that the idea that your idea of reality inside the computer is exactly as real as you think it is. Which is as real as you would like it to be. Also, as unreal. When the water doesn't come out of the tap, the shit doesn't get flushed away, or for some other reason you're forced to deal with the mundane reality of life, your perspective will change slightly. Your reality will shift. Or if you buy a house, or have to do repairs. What I am saying is, is that this is absolutely no different than everyone else - the other people, who also do not live in reality. They don't understand how the plumbing works either, but their reality most likely involves intrigues, dramas and scripts with other people, played out perhaps on a slightly different stage. There is nothing in understanding facebook or moving a mouse around which requires new neural hardware. P.S: > "Reality is what doesn't go away when you stop believing in it" This is kind of ironic when you're talking about "online" as a place. If we're to use that metric, "online" is extremely unreal. (I think it's as real a place as any other, and not especially more unreal than other unrealities we live in).
      - nitrogen 13y ago
        I'll concede that perhaps the experience of being one with the network is somehow similar to the experience of being one with a car, or one with the scenery and characters in a good book, but my point still stands that politicians who don't experience that connection are ill equipped to make decisions affecting those who do.

nitrogen 13y ago

No plumber thinks they live in the pipes, but "online" people can feel like they live in a separate place called "online".

xyzzy123 13y ago
That makes it a privileged delusion I suppose, as opposed to people who can read and temporarily relate to Julius Caesar. I suppose those people live in "Reading". P.S: I do think things are radically different now, I don't think people or brains are.
- nitrogen 13y ago
  Who are you to decide what is a delusion and what is not? Reality is what doesn't go away when you stop believing in it.
  - xyzzy123 13y ago
    My original point was, and is, that the idea that your idea of reality inside the computer is exactly as real as you think it is. Which is as real as you would like it to be. Also, as unreal. When the water doesn't come out of the tap, the shit doesn't get flushed away, or for some other reason you're forced to deal with the mundane reality of life, your perspective will change slightly. Your reality will shift. Or if you buy a house, or have to do repairs. What I am saying is, is that this is absolutely no different than everyone else - the other people, who also do not live in reality. They don't understand how the plumbing works either, but their reality most likely involves intrigues, dramas and scripts with other people, played out perhaps on a slightly different stage. There is nothing in understanding facebook or moving a mouse around which requires new neural hardware. P.S: > "Reality is what doesn't go away when you stop believing in it" This is kind of ironic when you're talking about "online" as a place. If we're to use that metric, "online" is extremely unreal. (I think it's as real a place as any other, and not especially more unreal than other unrealities we live in).
    - nitrogen 13y ago
      I'll concede that perhaps the experience of being one with the network is somehow similar to the experience of being one with a car, or one with the scenery and characters in a good book, but my point still stands that politicians who don't experience that connection are ill equipped to make decisions affecting those who do.