3 ms·

I personally find it unprofessional to work for free. If you do not create enough value to warrant at least minimum wage, the company shouldn't bother hiring yo

by pathy 13y ago

I personally find it unprofessional to work for free. If you do not create enough value to warrant at least minimum wage, the company shouldn't bother hiring you in the first place. Working for free is exploitative and skews the job market. That said, your strategy may work, making yourself indispensable is a brilliant strategy in general but how will you live for those three months? Especially if you are just out of school or similar. I am also not sure how it will affect your salary - compared to a person who would get hired (with a salary) straight away.

coolsunglasses 13y ago
Rich people / daddy pays for my cellphone/car/rent tactic. People find it distasteful because they can't "compete" on that level. Having even just the basics covered indefinitely goes a long way, especially if you're actually working on a career of any sort. Opens up unpaid internships and fun little entrepeneurial experiments that wouldn't be possible if you had to work a paying 9-5 to cover the rent. I know this because there were tactics I had to pass up because I've had to pay my way (food, rent, bills, the works) since I was 17.
- pathy 13y ago
  This is very true. If you have the possibility to do entrepreneurial experiments or similar, do it! I don't wish to begrudge anyone that, I am of the opinion that you should just any competitive advantage you have in your favour. Be it rich parents or a very creative mind. It is unfair, for those who can't 'compete' in that advantage but that is life I guess? But I still believe unpaid internships/work for free is a bad thing, with a few exceptions such as unpaid internships in exchange for college credits. It basically benefits no one in the long run. Not companies, not the economy, not the individuals.
  - _mulder_ 13y ago
    I think the difference is people going out of their way to work for free at a company they enjoy and wouldn't get a chance to work at normally, vs. the expectation that you must work for free, like the traditional interns for Lawyers. You're right, in the latter instance, there is such a large supply of interns working for free that it becomes the expected route of entry into these firms and creates a big market distortion. You could argue these tend to be for high paying jobs requiring special skill-set, and thus could view 'complusory' internship as an extended 3-month interview. But if you go and work at a start-up for free, you're there because you want to, not because it's expected.
  - king_jester 13y ago
    > This is very true. If you have the possibility to do entrepreneurial experiments or similar, do it! I don't wish to begrudge anyone that, I am of the opinion that you should just any competitive advantage you have in your favour. Be it rich parents or a very creative mind. It is unfair, for those who can't 'compete' in that advantage but that is life I guess? Oddly enough this is a form of using existing connections and social networks to find work. You are simply using resources that aren't directly related to the company you are working for. That said, you are displacing workers who do not have existing wealth and family connections to back their life. They cannot reasonably work for free and compete with your existing resources/wealth/support. Doing this isn't ethical and promote systemic unemployment of those who cannot work for low wage or free.
- joelrunyon 13y ago
  I crashed at my sisters for 3 months and then lived in an apt for $300 for 9 months while making $250/month for the first 3 months. Ended up getting a job there, working my way, getting recruited & then quitting & starting my own business. Not a "rich person", just got tired of getting rejected from starbucks/target/caribou & figured I'd might as well spend my time being useful rather than complaining about being unemployed.
  - bruceb 13y ago
    While I will say you were not supported by "Daddy" but were by your sister. Not everyone has a family member where they want to get a job. 3 months is a not a short stay. That being said some people need to realize you have to sacrifice having your own room sometimes if you are going after a goal. Good that you did that and it worked out.
  - antoko 13y ago
    you're not a "rich person" by your definition of whatever that means, but how do you live on $250/mo when just rent is $300/mo? You're short $50/mo and you didn't eat or travel yet. For other people's definition of "rich person" magic money from nowhere that pays your bills is sufficient.
    - joelrunyon 13y ago
      I had a bit of money saved (just a couple thousand), but I decided that 3 months of debt going after something I wanted was worth the risk. Worth noting that I still paid her rent the entire stay.
joelrunyon 13y ago
The whole point of this isn't being hired straight away - it's about finding leverage in a situation in which you have none. Substituting 3 months of low pay (and subsequent similarly small increases) in exchange for 3 months of free work and (up to 10k higher starting salary in my case), is a no brainer if you look at the big picture
hnal943 13y ago
Do you really think that any product with a "try before you buy" sales strategy is worthless?

by pathy 13y ago

coolsunglasses 13y ago

Rich people / daddy pays for my cellphone/car/rent tactic. People find it distasteful because they can't "compete" on that level. Having even just the basics covered indefinitely goes a long way, especially if you're actually working on a career of any sort. Opens up unpaid internships and fun little entrepeneurial experiments that wouldn't be possible if you had to work a paying 9-5 to cover the rent. I know this because there were tactics I had to pass up because I've had to pay my way (food, rent, bills, the works) since I was 17.

pathy 13y ago
This is very true. If you have the possibility to do entrepreneurial experiments or similar, do it! I don't wish to begrudge anyone that, I am of the opinion that you should just any competitive advantage you have in your favour. Be it rich parents or a very creative mind. It is unfair, for those who can't 'compete' in that advantage but that is life I guess? But I still believe unpaid internships/work for free is a bad thing, with a few exceptions such as unpaid internships in exchange for college credits. It basically benefits no one in the long run. Not companies, not the economy, not the individuals.
- _mulder_ 13y ago
  I think the difference is people going out of their way to work for free at a company they enjoy and wouldn't get a chance to work at normally, vs. the expectation that you must work for free, like the traditional interns for Lawyers. You're right, in the latter instance, there is such a large supply of interns working for free that it becomes the expected route of entry into these firms and creates a big market distortion. You could argue these tend to be for high paying jobs requiring special skill-set, and thus could view 'complusory' internship as an extended 3-month interview. But if you go and work at a start-up for free, you're there because you want to, not because it's expected.
- king_jester 13y ago
  > This is very true. If you have the possibility to do entrepreneurial experiments or similar, do it! I don't wish to begrudge anyone that, I am of the opinion that you should just any competitive advantage you have in your favour. Be it rich parents or a very creative mind. It is unfair, for those who can't 'compete' in that advantage but that is life I guess? Oddly enough this is a form of using existing connections and social networks to find work. You are simply using resources that aren't directly related to the company you are working for. That said, you are displacing workers who do not have existing wealth and family connections to back their life. They cannot reasonably work for free and compete with your existing resources/wealth/support. Doing this isn't ethical and promote systemic unemployment of those who cannot work for low wage or free.
joelrunyon 13y ago
I crashed at my sisters for 3 months and then lived in an apt for $300 for 9 months while making $250/month for the first 3 months. Ended up getting a job there, working my way, getting recruited & then quitting & starting my own business. Not a "rich person", just got tired of getting rejected from starbucks/target/caribou & figured I'd might as well spend my time being useful rather than complaining about being unemployed.
- bruceb 13y ago
  While I will say you were not supported by "Daddy" but were by your sister. Not everyone has a family member where they want to get a job. 3 months is a not a short stay. That being said some people need to realize you have to sacrifice having your own room sometimes if you are going after a goal. Good that you did that and it worked out.
- antoko 13y ago
  you're not a "rich person" by your definition of whatever that means, but how do you live on $250/mo when just rent is $300/mo? You're short $50/mo and you didn't eat or travel yet. For other people's definition of "rich person" magic money from nowhere that pays your bills is sufficient.
  - joelrunyon 13y ago
    I had a bit of money saved (just a couple thousand), but I decided that 3 months of debt going after something I wanted was worth the risk. Worth noting that I still paid her rent the entire stay.

joelrunyon 13y ago

The whole point of this isn't being hired straight away - it's about finding leverage in a situation in which you have none. Substituting 3 months of low pay (and subsequent similarly small increases) in exchange for 3 months of free work and (up to 10k higher starting salary in my case), is a no brainer if you look at the big picture

hnal943 13y ago

Do you really think that any product with a "try before you buy" sales strategy is worthless?