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You can hardly compare a glut of crappy crypto apps on some app store to the Vietnam War where it took 70,000 body bags on the nightly news (and much higher los

You can hardly compare a glut of crappy crypto apps on some app store to the Vietnam War where it took 70,000 body bags on the nightly news (and much higher losses on the other side) to finally get the US to withdraw. This is basically the ignorant old "NSA has so much data they won't know what to do with it" argument in a slightly different form. My attitude is that a handful of secure apps is infinitely better than a plethora of bad ones. I'm pretty sure the NSA would prefer the latter.

grey-area 13y ago
the Vietnam War where it took 70,000 body bags on the nightly news I was thinking of Afghanistan (21stC, 19thC), but Vietnam would serve. It was your analogy, and the only valid comparison is tactical, not concrete. I'm not supporting this particular app and wouldn't use it myself (I just use GPG on trust), but do think it's important we have a lot of people trying to work in this space, if only to have sufficient choice to prevent the field narrowing. The worst possible outcome from my point of view is to have just a few apps worldwide for crypto, not just for technical reasons but for political ones. My attitude is that a handful of secure apps is infinitely better than a plethora of bad ones. I'm pretty sure the NSA would prefer the latter. I'm not sure that's really the choice we have (a few secure apps OR lots of insecure ones, I'd have an AND in there and some grey area between secure and insecure), and how many crypto apps is too many? 200? 20? 10? 1? Given the evidence from the PRISM program, which relies on tech infrastructure being localised in a few prominent US companies to give the NSA easy access which they have found very useful, I disagree about a handful of apps being the worst outcome for the NSA. Ultimately the security of cryptography is also dependent on things outside the cryptographers' control (politics, laws, corporate policies in a specific country), and I'd rather have too many cryptographers than too few in the world. Crappy amateur apps, as you put it, is part of that because some of those people might then learn why and how their apps are insecure and make better ones.
- marshray 13y ago
  > but do think it's important we have a lot of people trying to work in this space, if only to have sufficient choice to prevent the field narrowing Yes, I agree with that. As long as we aren't encouraging people to actually use experimental learning projects for critical stuff, or thinking that a diversity of half-baked crypto apps is anything but a birthday party at Chuck E. Cheese for the NSA.
digitalengineer 13y ago
> the Vietnam War where it took 70,000 body bags on the nightly news Now you know why for tha last 18 years it was "illegal" to photograph soldiers' coffins. The ban was lifted some time ago: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/27/world/americas/27iht-photos.1.20479953.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/27/world/americas/27iht-photo...

grey-area 13y ago

the Vietnam War where it took 70,000 body bags on the nightly news I was thinking of Afghanistan (21stC, 19thC), but Vietnam would serve. It was your analogy, and the only valid comparison is tactical, not concrete. I'm not supporting this particular app and wouldn't use it myself (I just use GPG on trust), but do think it's important we have a lot of people trying to work in this space, if only to have sufficient choice to prevent the field narrowing. The worst possible outcome from my point of view is to have just a few apps worldwide for crypto, not just for technical reasons but for political ones. My attitude is that a handful of secure apps is infinitely better than a plethora of bad ones. I'm pretty sure the NSA would prefer the latter. I'm not sure that's really the choice we have (a few secure apps OR lots of insecure ones, I'd have an AND in there and some grey area between secure and insecure), and how many crypto apps is too many? 200? 20? 10? 1? Given the evidence from the PRISM program, which relies on tech infrastructure being localised in a few prominent US companies to give the NSA easy access which they have found very useful, I disagree about a handful of apps being the worst outcome for the NSA. Ultimately the security of cryptography is also dependent on things outside the cryptographers' control (politics, laws, corporate policies in a specific country), and I'd rather have too many cryptographers than too few in the world. Crappy amateur apps, as you put it, is part of that because some of those people might then learn why and how their apps are insecure and make better ones.

marshray 13y ago
> but do think it's important we have a lot of people trying to work in this space, if only to have sufficient choice to prevent the field narrowing Yes, I agree with that. As long as we aren't encouraging people to actually use experimental learning projects for critical stuff, or thinking that a diversity of half-baked crypto apps is anything but a birthday party at Chuck E. Cheese for the NSA.

digitalengineer 13y ago

> the Vietnam War where it took 70,000 body bags on the nightly news Now you know why for tha last 18 years it was "illegal" to photograph soldiers' coffins. The ban was lifted some time ago: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/27/world/americas/27iht-photos.1.20479953.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/27/world/americas/27iht-photo...