3 ms·

So the mathematician at NSA who developed the SHA-1 algorithm that underlies a lot of higher-level crypto primitives... is he an oppressor or an individual maki

by mpyne 13y ago

So the mathematician at NSA who developed the SHA-1 algorithm that underlies a lot of higher-level crypto primitives... is he an oppressor or an individual making a positive contribution to the collective good? How about the janitor who sweeps the bathroom floor at the NSA? Is he or she an enemy of humanity? Hopefully you would conclude otherwise for both, but now you run into the situation where you have to judge individual actions and not just collective membership when assessing who is, or is not, an enemy of humanity. Note that I haven't even had to try to stick up for those 'just following orders'. By all means, judge people on what they do; judge ideas on their own merits; that's all I've ever asked for myself. Just remember that sometimes good work may come from organizations that you consider evil. Imagine how we would have thought of the infamous Nazi Oskar Schindler, before we knew the real story of his factory. Likewise, good people may have bad ideas, and those with good ideas are not necessarily good people trying to lead you to a good goal.

samstave 13y ago
If you retread my comment, I specifically said I have no respect for the people at the NSA (and USG in general) who have worked to create a global surveillance state. Your question about the "janitor" is ridiculous. While he's the lowest on the pawn totem, I am specifically talking a out those who know that they have created the systems designed to spy on every man woman and child on the planet. If you cannot separate these people from those in a janitorial position, then you're clearly attempting to sideline the discussion.
- mpyne 13y ago
  > If you retread my comment, I specifically said I have no respect for the people at the NSA (and USG in general) who have worked to create a global surveillance state Well all I ask is that you keep that in mind next time you decry someone for working at NSA, or FBI, or any of a number of other agencies, unless you actually know what they've done. People are all too willing to offload rational thought to the simple act of labeling. The Bush-style logic of "You're either with us or against us" was wrong when talking about terrorism, and it's still wrong when you're talking about the NSA, or even government in general. Let people be evaluated for what they actually do, not merely for where they showed up for work. In case you're wondering, this does mean that I don't support excluding Feds from a conference just because they're Feds, arrest powers or otherwise... though you could ask the agency not to send their employees on official duty since we oppose the agency's actions itself.

by mpyne 13y ago

samstave 13y ago

If you retread my comment, I specifically said I have no respect for the people at the NSA (and USG in general) who have worked to create a global surveillance state. Your question about the "janitor" is ridiculous. While he's the lowest on the pawn totem, I am specifically talking a out those who know that they have created the systems designed to spy on every man woman and child on the planet. If you cannot separate these people from those in a janitorial position, then you're clearly attempting to sideline the discussion.

mpyne 13y ago
> If you retread my comment, I specifically said I have no respect for the people at the NSA (and USG in general) who have worked to create a global surveillance state Well all I ask is that you keep that in mind next time you decry someone for working at NSA, or FBI, or any of a number of other agencies, unless you actually know what they've done. People are all too willing to offload rational thought to the simple act of labeling. The Bush-style logic of "You're either with us or against us" was wrong when talking about terrorism, and it's still wrong when you're talking about the NSA, or even government in general. Let people be evaluated for what they actually do, not merely for where they showed up for work. In case you're wondering, this does mean that I don't support excluding Feds from a conference just because they're Feds, arrest powers or otherwise... though you could ask the agency not to send their employees on official duty since we oppose the agency's actions itself.