5 ms·

As somebody who grew up with "actual/bad ADHD," I find this statement, frankly, insulting. As a result of being drugged with Ritalin/Adderall throughout my chil

by pvnick 13y ago

As somebody who grew up with "actual/bad ADHD," I find this statement, frankly, insulting. As a result of being drugged with Ritalin/Adderall throughout my childhood, I've had this notion of being somehow "wrong" or "broken" ingrained in my psyche, an effect with which I still struggle to this day. There are plenty of schools in which to enroll children with ADHD, and there are a ton of career paths - generally related to creative thinking - in which we can express ourselves freely without the stigma of being somehow "abnormal." Have you ever actually taken an adderall? It has an intense narcotic effect, which is why people abuse it. I can't believe we give it to our children.

DannyBee 13y ago
Adderral does not have an intense narcotic effect for me. You can also nowadays take straterra, which is a non-stimulant. Honestly, if your ADHD is so low level that you can function well without drugs, more power to you. There are plenty of ADHD people who literally cannot, and to imply they could just take career paths involving "creative thinking" is, IMHO, somewhat wishful thinking.
- pvnick 13y ago
  While I'm happy to hear that some have found a way to control their "affliction," I've never tried Straterra and have no plans to start. As I alluded to in my original post, my ideological objections to drugging our "broken" children are more than simply pragmatic. And, even though I'm a mid-twenties male in college, I hardly ever go to class as I still can't manage to sit still long enough to listen to a 50 minute lecture. I read the textbooks instead and ace the tests. Anecdotally (I use that word conservatively as I've read studies to this effect but don't care to look them up), I've found that those with ADHD, including myself, are more creative than "normal" people. Something about the non sequitur way in which our minds work. So it's a difference in strengths, not a difference in mental quality. I also noticed I'm using a lot of quotes in my reply. I guess my cynicism is expressing itself through my sarcastic tone.
  - DannyBee 13y ago
    "As I alluded to in my original post, my ideological objections to drugging our "broken" children are more than simply pragmatic. " Do you have similar objections to drugging alzheimers patients? I'm trying to understand where you draw the line. Given that actually diagnosed ADHD people have brain chemistry differences that various drugs are meant to control, i have trouble seeing a difference between the two cases. If you want to pretend you aren't neurologically different than others, great. Maybe you aren't! Plenty are. If you believe ADHD is a biological advantage that shouldn't be chemistry'd out, again great. Convince enough people, and eventually evolution will win.
    - pvnick 13y ago
      I don't remember ever being afflicted with Alzheimer's, so I can't speak to that case. But what is evident is that ADHD affliction is a broad, very continuous spectrum and not a black/white "disease" in the traditional sense. It's largely based on subjective factors. The hypochondriac parent will very easily convince a doctor to prescribe ADHD medication for his/her child. This reality, in addition to my own personal experience, leads me to believe that "ADHD" is less a disorder and more just a feature, like having brown eyes or fair skin.
      - DannyBee 13y ago
        I guess I strongly disagree. Just because diagnostic conditions are not always clear, or overdiagnose, does not make it any less of a disease. A lot of things mental disorders are based on subjective factors. Would you disagree that schizophrenia is a disease? At least 3 of the factors (and you only need two) are highly subjective. If you wanted to argue that DSM-IV/DSM-V criteria for a lot of things have a tendency to overdiagnose or not be objective enough, I would heartily agree. That does not make something any less of a disease, it only means our diagnostic criteria suck. Alzheimers had very broad, subjective, diagnostic criteria once as well, right up until they made various breakthroughs in neuropathology. Yet you seem willing to class that as a disease?
      - derefr 13y ago
derefr 13y ago
The "intense narcotic effect" of Adderall is due, by the way, to the immediate, large amount of it made available in the bloodstream. The whole point of newer-generation drugs like Vyvanse and Concerta is to change the bioavailablity of the drug to a small, steady stream, by effectively having the liver process and "activate" it at whatever speed the body prompts it to. I'm sorry for what you went through, but it's not the same thing kids today go through. (I say this as someone who was diagnosed with ADD after 23 years being unaware of it, doing very badly in school, letting relationships fall apart, losing jobs, etc. In retrospect, given the drug technology at the time, I think my parents made the right choice--when a teacher suggested they look into my neurological condition--that the treatments available at the time were worse than the disease. However, this is no longer the case.)
thejosh 13y ago
Re-reading that does sound a bit insulting, I'm sorry that it came out that way, I don't mean any disrespect. I grew up with a brother who had to take dexamphetamine or he wouldn't be able to do anything, he was a totally different person under it.
- pvnick 13y ago
  Totally understand, thanks for the clarification. Obviously this is something I'm passionate about ;)

by pvnick 13y ago

DannyBee 13y ago

Adderral does not have an intense narcotic effect for me. You can also nowadays take straterra, which is a non-stimulant. Honestly, if your ADHD is so low level that you can function well without drugs, more power to you. There are plenty of ADHD people who literally cannot, and to imply they could just take career paths involving "creative thinking" is, IMHO, somewhat wishful thinking.

pvnick 13y ago
While I'm happy to hear that some have found a way to control their "affliction," I've never tried Straterra and have no plans to start. As I alluded to in my original post, my ideological objections to drugging our "broken" children are more than simply pragmatic. And, even though I'm a mid-twenties male in college, I hardly ever go to class as I still can't manage to sit still long enough to listen to a 50 minute lecture. I read the textbooks instead and ace the tests. Anecdotally (I use that word conservatively as I've read studies to this effect but don't care to look them up), I've found that those with ADHD, including myself, are more creative than "normal" people. Something about the non sequitur way in which our minds work. So it's a difference in strengths, not a difference in mental quality. I also noticed I'm using a lot of quotes in my reply. I guess my cynicism is expressing itself through my sarcastic tone.
- DannyBee 13y ago
  "As I alluded to in my original post, my ideological objections to drugging our "broken" children are more than simply pragmatic. " Do you have similar objections to drugging alzheimers patients? I'm trying to understand where you draw the line. Given that actually diagnosed ADHD people have brain chemistry differences that various drugs are meant to control, i have trouble seeing a difference between the two cases. If you want to pretend you aren't neurologically different than others, great. Maybe you aren't! Plenty are. If you believe ADHD is a biological advantage that shouldn't be chemistry'd out, again great. Convince enough people, and eventually evolution will win.
  - pvnick 13y ago
    I don't remember ever being afflicted with Alzheimer's, so I can't speak to that case. But what is evident is that ADHD affliction is a broad, very continuous spectrum and not a black/white "disease" in the traditional sense. It's largely based on subjective factors. The hypochondriac parent will very easily convince a doctor to prescribe ADHD medication for his/her child. This reality, in addition to my own personal experience, leads me to believe that "ADHD" is less a disorder and more just a feature, like having brown eyes or fair skin.
    - DannyBee 13y ago
      I guess I strongly disagree. Just because diagnostic conditions are not always clear, or overdiagnose, does not make it any less of a disease. A lot of things mental disorders are based on subjective factors. Would you disagree that schizophrenia is a disease? At least 3 of the factors (and you only need two) are highly subjective. If you wanted to argue that DSM-IV/DSM-V criteria for a lot of things have a tendency to overdiagnose or not be objective enough, I would heartily agree. That does not make something any less of a disease, it only means our diagnostic criteria suck. Alzheimers had very broad, subjective, diagnostic criteria once as well, right up until they made various breakthroughs in neuropathology. Yet you seem willing to class that as a disease?
    - derefr 13y ago

derefr 13y ago

The "intense narcotic effect" of Adderall is due, by the way, to the immediate, large amount of it made available in the bloodstream. The whole point of newer-generation drugs like Vyvanse and Concerta is to change the bioavailablity of the drug to a small, steady stream, by effectively having the liver process and "activate" it at whatever speed the body prompts it to. I'm sorry for what you went through, but it's not the same thing kids today go through. (I say this as someone who was diagnosed with ADD after 23 years being unaware of it, doing very badly in school, letting relationships fall apart, losing jobs, etc. In retrospect, given the drug technology at the time, I think my parents made the right choice--when a teacher suggested they look into my neurological condition--that the treatments available at the time were worse than the disease. However, this is no longer the case.)

thejosh 13y ago

Re-reading that does sound a bit insulting, I'm sorry that it came out that way, I don't mean any disrespect. I grew up with a brother who had to take dexamphetamine or he wouldn't be able to do anything, he was a totally different person under it.

pvnick 13y ago
Totally understand, thanks for the clarification. Obviously this is something I'm passionate about ;)