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ADHD Drugs Don't Boost Kids' Grades, Studies Find

81 points by gruseom 13y ago

paul9290 13y ago
No but they do boost Pfizer's stock price! Placebos are a billion dollar business!
lsiebert 13y ago
Focus and memory isn't enough, is the takeaway from this article. You have to teach people good study habits, habits they won't necessarily have if they have ADHD/ADD. That focus is great, but only if properly targeted towards the tasks that need to be accomplished and the material that needs to be learned.
- Wingman4l7 13y ago
  Not to mention that all the drugs in the world can't make a kid care about completing the scutwork some schools dish out.
  - bayesianhorse 13y ago
    Sitting still at least some of the time and not attacking fellow students and teachers more than they deserve is certainly a good start...
- lolwutf 13y ago
  So, like everything else in the world, success at this task is a balance of many things and not just one single thing? Tell me more...
thejosh 13y ago
Yes it won't boost their grades, but it will actually make them be able to be "normal" people. People haven't lived with someone with actual/bad ADHD if they think drugs don't work.
- pvnick 13y ago
  As somebody who grew up with "actual/bad ADHD," I find this statement, frankly, insulting. As a result of being drugged with Ritalin/Adderall throughout my childhood, I've had this notion of being somehow "wrong" or "broken" ingrained in my psyche, an effect with which I still struggle to this day. There are plenty of schools in which to enroll children with ADHD, and there are a ton of career paths - generally related to creative thinking - in which we can express ourselves freely without the stigma of being somehow "abnormal." Have you ever actually taken an adderall? It has an intense narcotic effect, which is why people abuse it. I can't believe we give it to our children.
  - DannyBee 13y ago
    Adderral does not have an intense narcotic effect for me. You can also nowadays take straterra, which is a non-stimulant. Honestly, if your ADHD is so low level that you can function well without drugs, more power to you. There are plenty of ADHD people who literally cannot, and to imply they could just take career paths involving "creative thinking" is, IMHO, somewhat wishful thinking.
    - pvnick 13y ago
      While I'm happy to hear that some have found a way to control their "affliction," I've never tried Straterra and have no plans to start. As I alluded to in my original post, my ideological objections to drugging our "broken" children are more than simply pragmatic. And, even though I'm a mid-twenties male in college, I hardly ever go to class as I still can't manage to sit still long enough to listen to a 50 minute lecture. I read the textbooks instead and ace the tests. Anecdotally (I use that word conservatively as I've read studies to this effect but don't care to look them up), I've found that those with ADHD, including myself, are more creative than "normal" people. Something about the non sequitur way in which our minds work. So it's a difference in strengths, not a difference in mental quality. I also noticed I'm using a lot of quotes in my reply. I guess my cynicism is expressing itself through my sarcastic tone.
      - 13y ago
lolwutf 13y ago
As someone who grew up with ADHD managed by stimulant drug therapy since age 7, I can earnestly say that my experience was that ADHD drugs did boost my grades and were a crucial factor in my career success, to date (and still are).
- DannyBee 13y ago
  I completely agree. I was diagnosed and have been treated since around age 7. This was before ADHD was 'popular', and at a point in time when they thought it just went away when you got older. At least, as written, the article talks about something different from the study. The article says "However, a growing body of research finds that in the long run, achievement scores, grade-point averages or the likelihood of repeating a grade generally aren't any different in kids with ADHD who take medication compared with those who don't. " It then says "A June study looked at medication usage and educational outcomes of nearly 4,000 students in Quebec over an average of 11 years and found that boys who took ADHD drugs actually performed worse in school than those with a similar number of symptoms who didn't. Girls taking the medicine reported more emotional problems, according to a working paper published on the website of the National Bureau of Economic Research, a nonprofit economics research firm." Nowhere, does it say they study studied kids with ADHD, only kids taking ADHD drugs. I could entirely believe it does not improve grades or cognition in students who are not actually ADHD, but believe it "helps them focus" or whatever. THe article seems to mix up these things all over the place, in some cases talking about ADHD kids, and in some cases talking about kids taking ADHD drugs. If the study really only studied kids with some verified accurate ADHD diagnosis, it would be nice to know that. While, back when I was diagnosed 27 years ago, kids taking ADHD drugs and kids with ADHD were likely much the same group of people, they haven't been for a long time.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  How would you know if you have been taking them since you were 7?
benjamincburns 13y ago
So we're going to look at grades as an indicator of success here? Grades, which have been shown time and time again to have very weak, if any correlation with success? I've dealt with ADHD my entire life. As a kid people could see I was smart, but "if only he could apply himself!" One of the most pivotal decisions I ever made was to seek counseling, and ultimately medication, when I was flunking out of college. My grades improved enough to get me through undergrad. However they were never stellar because I was finally able to focus on all of the various ideas I had kicking around in my head that I was far, far more passionate about. I could rattle off a list of crazy successes that I would have never been able to achieve had I never sought medication, but honestly it boils down to one thing. When I want to do something that requires mental focus, said mental focus is no longer a barrier. I can actually do it. Because of that, I'm happy. So instead of grades, what about quality of life?
- obituary_latte 13y ago
  Honest question: could your success be at all attributed to placebo? IOW, is there any question at all as to whether or not you could have made a conscious decision to "buckle down" and have met the same result? I fear for myself that when facing similar hardship that acquiescing to meds could just be "dealing with the situation" and not properly processing what the actual hardship is, why it exists, and how else it could be dealt with. I suppose that in the end, solutions mean progress. And I'm all for working smarter, not harder. Perhaps it's stigma. At any rate, I'd appreciate your perspective. Also, awkward high-five for doing what you're doing.
  - benjamincburns 13y ago
    > Honest question: could your success be at all attributed to placebo? IOW, is there any question at all as to whether or not you could have made a conscious decision to "buckle down" and have met the same result? I'm 27 now. I began taking ADHD medication when I was 21. With the exception of methamphetamine (yes, it's actually an old, crude ADHD treatment) I believe I've taken every FDA-approved ADHD drug there is - both stimulant and non-stimulant. Even the patch. It was a hard road to figure out what is effective for me with minimal side effects, but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that medication contributes heavily to my success. The sensation is difficult to describe, but when I'm not medicated I'm often completely unaware that my focus has shifted. No amount of mental exertion (aka "buckling down") changes that for me. I'm a very passionate software engineer. I wake up in the morning and before I've put clothes on I'm reading about something to do with software. Chances are the last thing I look at before I fall asleep also has something to do with software. This has been constant since I was 12 years old -- long before I was medicated. In college, before I was medicated, there was absolutely no way I'd be able to make it through a lecture and retain all of the information -- even while taking notes. I'd pause to think about something the professor said, and a few tangents later I'd be drawing unicorn fish or something in the margins. I still have the notebooks. I've gone back and looked -- the difference between before and after I was medicated was stark [1]. Whether or not medication is the right choice is a very individual decision. Hell, even your doctor doesn't really know. If you have the ability to "buckle down" when needed and you don't feel like your life is ready to crumble because you're just barely getting by - you're probably fine. There's a ton these drugs can do to mess up your life [2] and the narcotic effects can be plenty distracting on their own if your doctor is too liberal with your dosage. 1: Something worth noting is that an outside observer might view this as having my creativity squelched. "Oh look at all the drawings, and now just boring mechanical notes? This person's soul has been snuffed out by the evil chemicals!" The truth is just the opposite - I was finally able to direct my creative energy where I wanted, and the feeling was utterly profound. 2: Appetite suppression, insomnia, depression, addiction, heart palpitations, aggressiveness, diminished sexual desire, and horrible irritability are all common side effects. They might not all meet the FDA definition of "common," but they're plenty common enough.
tekalon 13y ago
If a kid is taking the meds just for the grades, that's wrong. But ask the parents/teachers if they are paying attention and remembering instructions better if they do (which often have a impact on grades).
joshmn 13y ago
I wouldn't say they boost grades, but they did allow me to actually finish my homework (or start, in most cases)
beachstartup 13y ago
http://www.aasa.org/SchoolAdministratorArticle.aspx?id=5642 http://www.aasa.org/SchoolAdministratorArticle.aspx?id=5642 article on the feminization of schools. boys (even those without learning 'disabilities' are not set up to succeed in 21st century school systems.
X-Istence 13y ago
Each time a study comes out and people will link it to me (I've already had this linked to me three times) claiming that my ADHD medicine doesn't do anything and that it is worthless ... for me it isn't. Without my meds I wouldn't be able to concentrate, I wouldn't be able to get work done. At one point it got so bad at work that I was afraid I was going to get fired since I couldn't focus on any single task at hand at all. Starting on Aderall has changed my life. I am able to concentrate on work, I get more done, I feel calmer, it is almost as if a fog has been lifted and I can clearly see what I am working on. It has been a complete shift, like the difference between day and night. When I don't take my meds (doctor recommended breaks) I go back to being the old me, I become disorganised, I am constantly distracted and thinking about other things. I lose focus and space out. I don't like that person, because I feel like I don't accomplish anything :-(.
- linohh 13y ago
  What many people don't understand is the stress people with ADD are exposed to. Especially when they're smart. Imagine having a porsche in your driveway, but for reasons you can only use the first gear. No matter how hard you push the pedal to the metal, you won't be as fast as you want the car to go. Plus if you keep going full throttle in the first gear eventually you'll break something. Sounds depressing, doesn't it? And that's exactly what happens. People eventually get depressed. It won't go away by itself. When they go to the doctor, it's basically a game of chance. If the doctor is competent, he'll do the proper tests. Unfortunately most aren't. There are a lot of syndromes, illnesses, conditions that match the symptoms. If the ADD patient is lucky, the correct diagnosis is made. If unlucky, he may be treated for borderline, depressions, etc. Antidepressants may worsen the condition, because they may increase motivation without increasing ability. A well diagnosed and medicated ADD patient however will lose depression in almost no time.
  - dualboot 13y ago
    This is one of the most succinct explanations of what my life was like before medication and after. Thank you!
  - reneherse 13y ago
linohh 13y ago
What's the point in this? Of course the stuff doesn't boost grades by itself. It enables kids and adults to work for school or university or whatever like someone "normal". It doesn't increase your motivation, it increases your ability.
bayesianhorse 13y ago
ADHD is both over-treated as well as under-treated. Some children might not need medication, but others suffer from the effects of untreated ADHD. It often looks as if the side effects of Ritalin are overstated, and the negative effects of untreated ADHD are understated. ADHD has been linked to Depression and poor social life.
tsotha 13y ago
Outside of a tiny percentage of people with a problem serious enough to warrant medication, the point of the drugs is to make kid easier to manage.
codex 13y ago
It's possible that ADHD drugs don't boost grades, on average, because grades are a strong function of the home environment. Thus, improving a child's focus without improving their home environment won't magically improve their grades. Work is work and there is always something more stimulating a child could be doing in an unstructured environment. ADHD is heritable, so it's possible some parents don't themselves have strong study skills or discipline, value grades, and/or have self selected to take the easy route (drugs) before trying the hard route.
aaron695 13y ago
What sort of parents don't put their kids on medication even though it makes their lives easier? One they are probably hippies, but two I'd say they are quite invested in their child. Which to me could mean they put in enough extra effort to keep their kids grades high. I'd view the study cautiously.
tibbon 13y ago
Maybe not, but I can code 10x better on Adderall. If I had this in high school, I'd have gone to MIT.
blueprint 13y ago
Of coures not. Those drugs don't address the root cause.
- TeMPOraL 13y ago
  Which are unknown, might be (currently) unfixable, and more than likely are completely irrelevant. One of the reasons Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy states is for it being effective is essentially ignoring the "root causes" (that may as well be already gone) of problems in favour of actually fixing it.
  - blueprint 13y ago
    They may be unknown to you, but that doesn't mean the causes themselves are unknown. In order to find the root cause of a phenomenon, you must point out the phenomenon concretely enough - you need to know what you are diagnosing. That's the first step. Then we need to look at cases. It's foolish to try to say the causes are unknown without discussing these concrete matters.
scotty79 13y ago
> If its drugs demonstrably improve attention, focus and self-control, why wouldn't grades improve as well? Because academic performance depends far more on luck than on skill. That's why the whole standardized testing is silly. It precisely measures pretty much random variable.
- frozenport 13y ago
  Nope, then good grades wouldn't be repeatable!
dschiptsov 13y ago
The same way a better engine oil don't help distracted drivers.)
noone55 13y ago
I am currently prescribed Concerta 54 mg and take it in spurts. Why spurts? A love-hate relationship. While I am on Concerta, I excel at my job. Unfortunately, Concerta tends to super-enhance my "logical/work" side while hampering my "interpersonal/compassion" side. My girlrfriend cannot stand me while I am on my ADD medication: I am far too distant and non-communicative with her. I know she is right, I can't deny the truth: I neglect her to focus on logical tasks instead. It seems I cannot maintain a healthy, intimate relationship with my girlfriend (or likely any other person) while on ADD medication. In addition, my performance at work is abysmal without medication: I find any and every distraction around me when not medicated. How can I balance my work/personal life with ADD?! This frustration is driving me crazy! =(
gordaco 13y ago
The ADHD craze is rampant on the USA, but fortunately not in Europe, where I'm from. I'm so glad of that, even if I'm more or less on the opposite side of ADHD when it comes to focus and behaviour. Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying that ADHD is a thing. However, it seems that in the USA it's heavily overdiagnosed, and even worse, the educational system seems to be especially harmful to people with actual ADHD (some people argue that it's because of that system being focused on certain skills, but I honestly don't think it's so different here). It seems like some kind of ADHD-phobia that pushes schools to find a huge problem whenever any faint symptom is found, immediately resorting to medication and severely punishing those who don't comply.
- conradfr 13y ago
  Well great. But being in France I would have loved to have a chance to even know ADD existed before I found it myself online at the age of 29. And I think there is maybe only 3 doctors in Paris that diagnose it. And the only medication available is Ritaline / Concerta.
- kall 13y ago
  As a european with ADHD i'm not glad of that at all. It's a major PITA to find competent therapists for ADHD and our beautiful universal healthcare won't pay for half the treatment.
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- mistercow 13y ago
  It would be very silly to argue that Adderall is the solution for everyone with ADHD. Some people will experience negative side effects, and those people shouldn't take it. But that kind of experience is incredibly rare. Personally, I find that Adderall in particular improves my focus, but does little to improve my willpower, so I tend to focus very effectively, but not on the things I need to focus on.
- bored 13y ago
  How much were you taking?
mistercow 13y ago
Science reporting in the news sure is broken. Do enough studies and eventually you'll happen upon one that gives the wrong (and newsworthy) answer, just by chance. Here are some studies asking the same question that weren't mentioned, and their reported effect on academic performance (in order of my encountering them on scholar.google.com): 1. http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/pha/9/2/163/ http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/pha/9/2/163/ (positive) 2. http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/ccp/70/2/320/ http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/ccp/70/2/320/ (positive) 3. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7610.1993.tb01071.x/abstract?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7610.1993.... (positive) 4. http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1993-46419-001 http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1993-46419-001 (positive in short term, neutral in long term) 5. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00925819 http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00925819 (positive) I stopped there, but I think the trend is obvious. One thing I think is worth noting is that the short-term studies very directly measure academic performance by actually observing the patients. The long-term study cited in TFA - and I suspect most other long-term studies - relied on questionnaires instead. It seems probable to me that the problem here is that questionnaires are simply too noisy an information source to obtain a statistically significant result, given the additional noise created by overdiagnosis.
JJ216216 13y ago
The data used in making this statement is utterly skewed. I defer to Kuhn to explain why - how many variables were accounted for in any study supporting this conclusion? This doesn't have to be epistemologically far removed - there are real variables I'm sure were not accounted for. For example, the DEA has been on campaign for 2 years to subvert the FDAs authority - where exactly did funding come from and by whom? Also, one has to consider the rapidly shifting economic climate we live in - certainly that would have an effect on performance if it is weighing on a student's mind... Problems with the scope and geolocation of participants are clear. And the article writer forgot to address what is placed at the end of every published scientific study - it's limitations and how the study could have been better. And then there still are all those epistemological problems (infinite variables) still sitting there, glaring....
1a2a3afou 13y ago
I went from failing math classes to a straight A student and AIME competitor after starting concerta in high school. I'm very surprised at the results of the study. I didn't like the medications either since it made me feel very strange and I couldn't sleep at all so I tried for a long time to convince my parents they weren't doing anything. I'm aware that I act very different while on medication, people around me can very easily tell whether I forgot to take meds that day.
hankcharles 13y ago
A couple questions for those that have been on any single medication for a sustained period: 1 Have you found that you need to increase your dosage at a stable rate to maintain the same effectiveness? 2 How are you now when you are off the medication e.g If you are on vacation and do not need to 'buckle down' do you still feel a need to take the medication just to feel like yourself? Thanks in advance for any replies.
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81 points by gruseom 13y ago

No but they do boost Pfizer's stock price! Placebos are a billion dollar business!

Focus and memory isn't enough, is the takeaway from this article. You have to teach people good study habits, habits they won't necessarily have if they have ADHD/ADD. That focus is great, but only if properly targeted towards the tasks that need to be accomplished and the material that needs to be learned.

Wingman4l7 13y ago
Not to mention that all the drugs in the world can't make a kid care about completing the scutwork some schools dish out.
- bayesianhorse 13y ago
  Sitting still at least some of the time and not attacking fellow students and teachers more than they deserve is certainly a good start...
lolwutf 13y ago
So, like everything else in the world, success at this task is a balance of many things and not just one single thing? Tell me more...

thejosh 13y ago

Yes it won't boost their grades, but it will actually make them be able to be "normal" people. People haven't lived with someone with actual/bad ADHD if they think drugs don't work.

pvnick 13y ago
As somebody who grew up with "actual/bad ADHD," I find this statement, frankly, insulting. As a result of being drugged with Ritalin/Adderall throughout my childhood, I've had this notion of being somehow "wrong" or "broken" ingrained in my psyche, an effect with which I still struggle to this day. There are plenty of schools in which to enroll children with ADHD, and there are a ton of career paths - generally related to creative thinking - in which we can express ourselves freely without the stigma of being somehow "abnormal." Have you ever actually taken an adderall? It has an intense narcotic effect, which is why people abuse it. I can't believe we give it to our children.
- DannyBee 13y ago
  Adderral does not have an intense narcotic effect for me. You can also nowadays take straterra, which is a non-stimulant. Honestly, if your ADHD is so low level that you can function well without drugs, more power to you. There are plenty of ADHD people who literally cannot, and to imply they could just take career paths involving "creative thinking" is, IMHO, somewhat wishful thinking.
  - pvnick 13y ago
    While I'm happy to hear that some have found a way to control their "affliction," I've never tried Straterra and have no plans to start. As I alluded to in my original post, my ideological objections to drugging our "broken" children are more than simply pragmatic. And, even though I'm a mid-twenties male in college, I hardly ever go to class as I still can't manage to sit still long enough to listen to a 50 minute lecture. I read the textbooks instead and ace the tests. Anecdotally (I use that word conservatively as I've read studies to this effect but don't care to look them up), I've found that those with ADHD, including myself, are more creative than "normal" people. Something about the non sequitur way in which our minds work. So it's a difference in strengths, not a difference in mental quality. I also noticed I'm using a lot of quotes in my reply. I guess my cynicism is expressing itself through my sarcastic tone.
    - 13y ago

lolwutf 13y ago

As someone who grew up with ADHD managed by stimulant drug therapy since age 7, I can earnestly say that my experience was that ADHD drugs did boost my grades and were a crucial factor in my career success, to date (and still are).

DannyBee 13y ago
I completely agree. I was diagnosed and have been treated since around age 7. This was before ADHD was 'popular', and at a point in time when they thought it just went away when you got older. At least, as written, the article talks about something different from the study. The article says "However, a growing body of research finds that in the long run, achievement scores, grade-point averages or the likelihood of repeating a grade generally aren't any different in kids with ADHD who take medication compared with those who don't. " It then says "A June study looked at medication usage and educational outcomes of nearly 4,000 students in Quebec over an average of 11 years and found that boys who took ADHD drugs actually performed worse in school than those with a similar number of symptoms who didn't. Girls taking the medicine reported more emotional problems, according to a working paper published on the website of the National Bureau of Economic Research, a nonprofit economics research firm." Nowhere, does it say they study studied kids with ADHD, only kids taking ADHD drugs. I could entirely believe it does not improve grades or cognition in students who are not actually ADHD, but believe it "helps them focus" or whatever. THe article seems to mix up these things all over the place, in some cases talking about ADHD kids, and in some cases talking about kids taking ADHD drugs. If the study really only studied kids with some verified accurate ADHD diagnosis, it would be nice to know that. While, back when I was diagnosed 27 years ago, kids taking ADHD drugs and kids with ADHD were likely much the same group of people, they haven't been for a long time.
pessimizer 13y ago
How would you know if you have been taking them since you were 7?

benjamincburns 13y ago

So we're going to look at grades as an indicator of success here? Grades, which have been shown time and time again to have very weak, if any correlation with success? I've dealt with ADHD my entire life. As a kid people could see I was smart, but "if only he could apply himself!" One of the most pivotal decisions I ever made was to seek counseling, and ultimately medication, when I was flunking out of college. My grades improved enough to get me through undergrad. However they were never stellar because I was finally able to focus on all of the various ideas I had kicking around in my head that I was far, far more passionate about. I could rattle off a list of crazy successes that I would have never been able to achieve had I never sought medication, but honestly it boils down to one thing. When I want to do something that requires mental focus, said mental focus is no longer a barrier. I can actually do it. Because of that, I'm happy. So instead of grades, what about quality of life?

obituary_latte 13y ago
Honest question: could your success be at all attributed to placebo? IOW, is there any question at all as to whether or not you could have made a conscious decision to "buckle down" and have met the same result? I fear for myself that when facing similar hardship that acquiescing to meds could just be "dealing with the situation" and not properly processing what the actual hardship is, why it exists, and how else it could be dealt with. I suppose that in the end, solutions mean progress. And I'm all for working smarter, not harder. Perhaps it's stigma. At any rate, I'd appreciate your perspective. Also, awkward high-five for doing what you're doing.
- benjamincburns 13y ago
  > Honest question: could your success be at all attributed to placebo? IOW, is there any question at all as to whether or not you could have made a conscious decision to "buckle down" and have met the same result? I'm 27 now. I began taking ADHD medication when I was 21. With the exception of methamphetamine (yes, it's actually an old, crude ADHD treatment) I believe I've taken every FDA-approved ADHD drug there is - both stimulant and non-stimulant. Even the patch. It was a hard road to figure out what is effective for me with minimal side effects, but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that medication contributes heavily to my success. The sensation is difficult to describe, but when I'm not medicated I'm often completely unaware that my focus has shifted. No amount of mental exertion (aka "buckling down") changes that for me. I'm a very passionate software engineer. I wake up in the morning and before I've put clothes on I'm reading about something to do with software. Chances are the last thing I look at before I fall asleep also has something to do with software. This has been constant since I was 12 years old -- long before I was medicated. In college, before I was medicated, there was absolutely no way I'd be able to make it through a lecture and retain all of the information -- even while taking notes. I'd pause to think about something the professor said, and a few tangents later I'd be drawing unicorn fish or something in the margins. I still have the notebooks. I've gone back and looked -- the difference between before and after I was medicated was stark [1]. Whether or not medication is the right choice is a very individual decision. Hell, even your doctor doesn't really know. If you have the ability to "buckle down" when needed and you don't feel like your life is ready to crumble because you're just barely getting by - you're probably fine. There's a ton these drugs can do to mess up your life [2] and the narcotic effects can be plenty distracting on their own if your doctor is too liberal with your dosage. 1: Something worth noting is that an outside observer might view this as having my creativity squelched. "Oh look at all the drawings, and now just boring mechanical notes? This person's soul has been snuffed out by the evil chemicals!" The truth is just the opposite - I was finally able to direct my creative energy where I wanted, and the feeling was utterly profound. 2: Appetite suppression, insomnia, depression, addiction, heart palpitations, aggressiveness, diminished sexual desire, and horrible irritability are all common side effects. They might not all meet the FDA definition of "common," but they're plenty common enough.

tekalon 13y ago

If a kid is taking the meds just for the grades, that's wrong. But ask the parents/teachers if they are paying attention and remembering instructions better if they do (which often have a impact on grades).

joshmn 13y ago

I wouldn't say they boost grades, but they did allow me to actually finish my homework (or start, in most cases)

beachstartup 13y ago

http://www.aasa.org/SchoolAdministratorArticle.aspx?id=5642 http://www.aasa.org/SchoolAdministratorArticle.aspx?id=5642 article on the feminization of schools. boys (even those without learning 'disabilities' are not set up to succeed in 21st century school systems.

X-Istence 13y ago

Each time a study comes out and people will link it to me (I've already had this linked to me three times) claiming that my ADHD medicine doesn't do anything and that it is worthless ... for me it isn't. Without my meds I wouldn't be able to concentrate, I wouldn't be able to get work done. At one point it got so bad at work that I was afraid I was going to get fired since I couldn't focus on any single task at hand at all. Starting on Aderall has changed my life. I am able to concentrate on work, I get more done, I feel calmer, it is almost as if a fog has been lifted and I can clearly see what I am working on. It has been a complete shift, like the difference between day and night. When I don't take my meds (doctor recommended breaks) I go back to being the old me, I become disorganised, I am constantly distracted and thinking about other things. I lose focus and space out. I don't like that person, because I feel like I don't accomplish anything :-(.

linohh 13y ago
What many people don't understand is the stress people with ADD are exposed to. Especially when they're smart. Imagine having a porsche in your driveway, but for reasons you can only use the first gear. No matter how hard you push the pedal to the metal, you won't be as fast as you want the car to go. Plus if you keep going full throttle in the first gear eventually you'll break something. Sounds depressing, doesn't it? And that's exactly what happens. People eventually get depressed. It won't go away by itself. When they go to the doctor, it's basically a game of chance. If the doctor is competent, he'll do the proper tests. Unfortunately most aren't. There are a lot of syndromes, illnesses, conditions that match the symptoms. If the ADD patient is lucky, the correct diagnosis is made. If unlucky, he may be treated for borderline, depressions, etc. Antidepressants may worsen the condition, because they may increase motivation without increasing ability. A well diagnosed and medicated ADD patient however will lose depression in almost no time.
- dualboot 13y ago
  This is one of the most succinct explanations of what my life was like before medication and after. Thank you!
- reneherse 13y ago

linohh 13y ago

What's the point in this? Of course the stuff doesn't boost grades by itself. It enables kids and adults to work for school or university or whatever like someone "normal". It doesn't increase your motivation, it increases your ability.

bayesianhorse 13y ago

ADHD is both over-treated as well as under-treated. Some children might not need medication, but others suffer from the effects of untreated ADHD. It often looks as if the side effects of Ritalin are overstated, and the negative effects of untreated ADHD are understated. ADHD has been linked to Depression and poor social life.

tsotha 13y ago

Outside of a tiny percentage of people with a problem serious enough to warrant medication, the point of the drugs is to make kid easier to manage.

codex 13y ago

It's possible that ADHD drugs don't boost grades, on average, because grades are a strong function of the home environment. Thus, improving a child's focus without improving their home environment won't magically improve their grades. Work is work and there is always something more stimulating a child could be doing in an unstructured environment. ADHD is heritable, so it's possible some parents don't themselves have strong study skills or discipline, value grades, and/or have self selected to take the easy route (drugs) before trying the hard route.

aaron695 13y ago

What sort of parents don't put their kids on medication even though it makes their lives easier? One they are probably hippies, but two I'd say they are quite invested in their child. Which to me could mean they put in enough extra effort to keep their kids grades high. I'd view the study cautiously.

tibbon 13y ago

Maybe not, but I can code 10x better on Adderall. If I had this in high school, I'd have gone to MIT.

blueprint 13y ago

Of coures not. Those drugs don't address the root cause.

TeMPOraL 13y ago
Which are unknown, might be (currently) unfixable, and more than likely are completely irrelevant. One of the reasons Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy states is for it being effective is essentially ignoring the "root causes" (that may as well be already gone) of problems in favour of actually fixing it.
- blueprint 13y ago
  They may be unknown to you, but that doesn't mean the causes themselves are unknown. In order to find the root cause of a phenomenon, you must point out the phenomenon concretely enough - you need to know what you are diagnosing. That's the first step. Then we need to look at cases. It's foolish to try to say the causes are unknown without discussing these concrete matters.

scotty79 13y ago

> If its drugs demonstrably improve attention, focus and self-control, why wouldn't grades improve as well? Because academic performance depends far more on luck than on skill. That's why the whole standardized testing is silly. It precisely measures pretty much random variable.

frozenport 13y ago
Nope, then good grades wouldn't be repeatable!

dschiptsov 13y ago

The same way a better engine oil don't help distracted drivers.)

noone55 13y ago

I am currently prescribed Concerta 54 mg and take it in spurts. Why spurts? A love-hate relationship. While I am on Concerta, I excel at my job. Unfortunately, Concerta tends to super-enhance my "logical/work" side while hampering my "interpersonal/compassion" side. My girlrfriend cannot stand me while I am on my ADD medication: I am far too distant and non-communicative with her. I know she is right, I can't deny the truth: I neglect her to focus on logical tasks instead. It seems I cannot maintain a healthy, intimate relationship with my girlfriend (or likely any other person) while on ADD medication. In addition, my performance at work is abysmal without medication: I find any and every distraction around me when not medicated. How can I balance my work/personal life with ADD?! This frustration is driving me crazy! =(

gordaco 13y ago

The ADHD craze is rampant on the USA, but fortunately not in Europe, where I'm from. I'm so glad of that, even if I'm more or less on the opposite side of ADHD when it comes to focus and behaviour. Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying that ADHD is a thing. However, it seems that in the USA it's heavily overdiagnosed, and even worse, the educational system seems to be especially harmful to people with actual ADHD (some people argue that it's because of that system being focused on certain skills, but I honestly don't think it's so different here). It seems like some kind of ADHD-phobia that pushes schools to find a huge problem whenever any faint symptom is found, immediately resorting to medication and severely punishing those who don't comply.

conradfr 13y ago
Well great. But being in France I would have loved to have a chance to even know ADD existed before I found it myself online at the age of 29. And I think there is maybe only 3 doctors in Paris that diagnose it. And the only medication available is Ritaline / Concerta.
kall 13y ago
As a european with ADHD i'm not glad of that at all. It's a major PITA to find competent therapists for ADHD and our beautiful universal healthcare won't pay for half the treatment.

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mistercow 13y ago
It would be very silly to argue that Adderall is the solution for everyone with ADHD. Some people will experience negative side effects, and those people shouldn't take it. But that kind of experience is incredibly rare. Personally, I find that Adderall in particular improves my focus, but does little to improve my willpower, so I tend to focus very effectively, but not on the things I need to focus on.
bored 13y ago
How much were you taking?

mistercow 13y ago

Science reporting in the news sure is broken. Do enough studies and eventually you'll happen upon one that gives the wrong (and newsworthy) answer, just by chance. Here are some studies asking the same question that weren't mentioned, and their reported effect on academic performance (in order of my encountering them on scholar.google.com): 1. http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/pha/9/2/163/ http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/pha/9/2/163/ (positive) 2. http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/ccp/70/2/320/ http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/ccp/70/2/320/ (positive) 3. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7610.1993.tb01071.x/abstract?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7610.1993.... (positive) 4. http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1993-46419-001 http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1993-46419-001 (positive in short term, neutral in long term) 5. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00925819 http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00925819 (positive) I stopped there, but I think the trend is obvious. One thing I think is worth noting is that the short-term studies very directly measure academic performance by actually observing the patients. The long-term study cited in TFA - and I suspect most other long-term studies - relied on questionnaires instead. It seems probable to me that the problem here is that questionnaires are simply too noisy an information source to obtain a statistically significant result, given the additional noise created by overdiagnosis.

JJ216216 13y ago

The data used in making this statement is utterly skewed. I defer to Kuhn to explain why - how many variables were accounted for in any study supporting this conclusion? This doesn't have to be epistemologically far removed - there are real variables I'm sure were not accounted for. For example, the DEA has been on campaign for 2 years to subvert the FDAs authority - where exactly did funding come from and by whom? Also, one has to consider the rapidly shifting economic climate we live in - certainly that would have an effect on performance if it is weighing on a student's mind... Problems with the scope and geolocation of participants are clear. And the article writer forgot to address what is placed at the end of every published scientific study - it's limitations and how the study could have been better. And then there still are all those epistemological problems (infinite variables) still sitting there, glaring....

1a2a3afou 13y ago

I went from failing math classes to a straight A student and AIME competitor after starting concerta in high school. I'm very surprised at the results of the study. I didn't like the medications either since it made me feel very strange and I couldn't sleep at all so I tried for a long time to convince my parents they weren't doing anything. I'm aware that I act very different while on medication, people around me can very easily tell whether I forgot to take meds that day.

hankcharles 13y ago

A couple questions for those that have been on any single medication for a sustained period: 1 Have you found that you need to increase your dosage at a stable rate to maintain the same effectiveness? 2 How are you now when you are off the medication e.g If you are on vacation and do not need to 'buckle down' do you still feel a need to take the medication just to feel like yourself? Thanks in advance for any replies.

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