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A holocaust denial law in the US would be bullshit b/c holocaust denial here is only slightly dangerous. In some countries, e.g. Germany, it's a lingering part

A holocaust denial law in the US would be bullshit b/c holocaust denial here is only slightly dangerous. In some countries, e.g. Germany, it's a lingering part of world war 2 which is not yet obsolete. It's a war act, and it's suppressing a genuine, serious risk of violence. I know that's a bit hard to believe for an American who would never do such a thing. The holocaust was hard to believe too. We should not ask or encourage Germany to repeal their holocaust denial laws before Germans judge that they are ready.

mrtron 17y ago
You really think that Germans are likely to commit atrocious acts in the future, but are being held back by something like the denial laws? Additionally, you think Americans 'would never do such a thing'? I don't know how you can argue against denial laws in the US and for them in Germany. People in general have always had flaws that result in them committing horrible deeds. The holocaust occurred because many individuals committed acts that they were able to rationalize to themselves - which as a whole resulted in a great evil. No law about what people can say in public will prevent such an event.
- xenophanes 17y ago
  Yes I really think what I wrote. Do you really think questioning my genuineness is a serious or valid way of arguing?
TomOfTTB 17y ago
This is flawed logic. You can't stop Holocaust denial with a law. You just drive it underground. Worse yet you give Holocaust deniers a valid recruitment argument in that they can say the government is "trying to silence them" which makes their beliefs seem more plausible than they are. The best thing to do with Holocaust deniers, or any other foolish movement for that matter, is to let them speak their mind and make fools of themselves.
- xenophanes 17y ago
  It matters what the authority of Government says about an issue. Government opposition makes it illegitimate. Many people care about that and avoid illegitimate things. Some things should have to be underground, which many will see as a mark of shame for it. Most people don't want to be underground. You seem to take "opposed by the Government" as a badge of honor, which is understandable, but it is not how a majority of people think, especially outside the US.
  - TomOfTTB 17y ago
    That may be true for rational thought but belief isn't rational thought. If the Government of the United States decided tomorrow to make believing in Alien Abductions and Crop Circles a law I'd simply be forced to break the law. That's where the flaw is. The governments of these other countries think they can suppress belief simply by suppressing speech and they can't.
    - xenophanes 17y ago
      It's not really about suppressing beliefs, it's about suppressing instantiations of those beliefs, especially legitimate organizations that people can be part of and enjoy their life without shame or hiding underground. That discourages many people away from them. Why suppress such organizations, groups, discussion meetups, social circles, etc? Because of the danger of violence.

mrtron 17y ago

You really think that Germans are likely to commit atrocious acts in the future, but are being held back by something like the denial laws? Additionally, you think Americans 'would never do such a thing'? I don't know how you can argue against denial laws in the US and for them in Germany. People in general have always had flaws that result in them committing horrible deeds. The holocaust occurred because many individuals committed acts that they were able to rationalize to themselves - which as a whole resulted in a great evil. No law about what people can say in public will prevent such an event.

xenophanes 17y ago
Yes I really think what I wrote. Do you really think questioning my genuineness is a serious or valid way of arguing?

TomOfTTB 17y ago

This is flawed logic. You can't stop Holocaust denial with a law. You just drive it underground. Worse yet you give Holocaust deniers a valid recruitment argument in that they can say the government is "trying to silence them" which makes their beliefs seem more plausible than they are. The best thing to do with Holocaust deniers, or any other foolish movement for that matter, is to let them speak their mind and make fools of themselves.

xenophanes 17y ago
It matters what the authority of Government says about an issue. Government opposition makes it illegitimate. Many people care about that and avoid illegitimate things. Some things should have to be underground, which many will see as a mark of shame for it. Most people don't want to be underground. You seem to take "opposed by the Government" as a badge of honor, which is understandable, but it is not how a majority of people think, especially outside the US.
- TomOfTTB 17y ago
  That may be true for rational thought but belief isn't rational thought. If the Government of the United States decided tomorrow to make believing in Alien Abductions and Crop Circles a law I'd simply be forced to break the law. That's where the flaw is. The governments of these other countries think they can suppress belief simply by suppressing speech and they can't.
  - xenophanes 17y ago
    It's not really about suppressing beliefs, it's about suppressing instantiations of those beliefs, especially legitimate organizations that people can be part of and enjoy their life without shame or hiding underground. That discourages many people away from them. Why suppress such organizations, groups, discussion meetups, social circles, etc? Because of the danger of violence.