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I think the NSA and friends are underestimating the amount of anger out there, and that the Congresscritters will probably try for a reduction of the NSA's budg

I think the NSA and friends are underestimating the amount of anger out there, and that the Congresscritters will probably try for a reduction of the NSA's budget to punish them for lying to them. The future of the organization might not be in jeopardy (although from the way congressmen seem peeved, it might) but there will definitely be cutbacks across the entire surveillance business.

chris_mahan 13y ago
See http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/lawmakers-say-administrations-lack-of-candor-on-surveillance-weakens-oversight/2013/07/10/8275d8c8-e97a-11e2-aa9f-c03a72e2d342_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/lawmakers-say-adminis... from the Washington Post. See the following paragraph on the page 1: "“The national security state has grown so that any administration is now not upfront with Congress,” said Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.), a senior member of the House Judiciary Committee. “It’s an imbalance that’s grown in our government, and one that we have to cleanse.”" as well as the last 5 paragraphs: (para 1) Clapper’s statement prompted some lawmakers to allege what Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) called a “double standard” in which a top official could deliver false testimony without fear of penalty. (para 2) “If the administration has a policy to lie to Congress about classified materials in unclassified hearings, then you have to ask yourself what value the hearings have and whether or not anyone else is doing it,” said Rep. Mick Mulvaney (R-S.C.). (para 3) Some are calling for a major overhaul of the current oversight system, including the intelligence committees and the surveillance court, which were created in the late 1970s amid growing concern about U.S. spy practices following Watergate, the Vietnam War and revelations about CIA efforts to overthrow foreign governments. (para 4) Congress “tried to make agencies which have to operate in secret accountable nevertheless to the law,” said former vice president Walter F. Mondale, who as a senator was a member of the Church Committee, which led the efforts to overhaul the system. (para 5) Now, Mondale said, “that system has totally collapsed.” He said Clapper’s willingness to mislead the public during Senate testimony “is what happens when there’s no accountability. . . . What is the consequence of fibbing to the American people?” This seems to indicate to me that some congressmen are indeed interested in changing things around.
a3n 13y ago
"Congresscritters will probably try for a reduction of the NSA's budget" Not if the leadership and seniors have anything to do with it. Boehner called Snowden a traitor; he doesn't want to be told what Snowden knows. And Feinstein has defended the programs. Wyden and Udall are in the minority. Everyone else on the Senate Intelligence Committee heard what those two heard, and there were no words of discontent or reform beyond what those two said. Indeed, most of you probably know their names only because of their faint opposition. They've been speaking as much as they dare for years, which means the rest of the committee has known for years. And yet, nothing.
- chris_mahan 13y ago
  Congressmen have to be re-elected, and they have to show to their constituents that they have done _something_ to protect their privacy... There will be change.
  - a3n 13y ago
    Congress at large has the worst approval ratings in years, possibly ever. And yet we keep on mostly re-electing the individuals that make up the body, while in the same breath complaining about Congress.
- drivingmenuts 13y ago
  Most, if not all, of the SIC members are the politically powerful members of the Senate, who will only be replaced at the polls if they screw up in an unrecoverable way (usually a sex scandal - people remember those). At any rate, because it's a rotating membership, there's no guarantee that anyone with any shred of decency toward privacy will wind up on it.
lifeguard 13y ago
I hope you are correct, but there is a lot of pork in there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel#Definition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel#Definition

chris_mahan 13y ago

See http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/lawmakers-say-administrations-lack-of-candor-on-surveillance-weakens-oversight/2013/07/10/8275d8c8-e97a-11e2-aa9f-c03a72e2d342_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/lawmakers-say-adminis... from the Washington Post. See the following paragraph on the page 1: "“The national security state has grown so that any administration is now not upfront with Congress,” said Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.), a senior member of the House Judiciary Committee. “It’s an imbalance that’s grown in our government, and one that we have to cleanse.”" as well as the last 5 paragraphs: (para 1) Clapper’s statement prompted some lawmakers to allege what Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) called a “double standard” in which a top official could deliver false testimony without fear of penalty. (para 2) “If the administration has a policy to lie to Congress about classified materials in unclassified hearings, then you have to ask yourself what value the hearings have and whether or not anyone else is doing it,” said Rep. Mick Mulvaney (R-S.C.). (para 3) Some are calling for a major overhaul of the current oversight system, including the intelligence committees and the surveillance court, which were created in the late 1970s amid growing concern about U.S. spy practices following Watergate, the Vietnam War and revelations about CIA efforts to overthrow foreign governments. (para 4) Congress “tried to make agencies which have to operate in secret accountable nevertheless to the law,” said former vice president Walter F. Mondale, who as a senator was a member of the Church Committee, which led the efforts to overhaul the system. (para 5) Now, Mondale said, “that system has totally collapsed.” He said Clapper’s willingness to mislead the public during Senate testimony “is what happens when there’s no accountability. . . . What is the consequence of fibbing to the American people?” This seems to indicate to me that some congressmen are indeed interested in changing things around.

a3n 13y ago

"Congresscritters will probably try for a reduction of the NSA's budget" Not if the leadership and seniors have anything to do with it. Boehner called Snowden a traitor; he doesn't want to be told what Snowden knows. And Feinstein has defended the programs. Wyden and Udall are in the minority. Everyone else on the Senate Intelligence Committee heard what those two heard, and there were no words of discontent or reform beyond what those two said. Indeed, most of you probably know their names only because of their faint opposition. They've been speaking as much as they dare for years, which means the rest of the committee has known for years. And yet, nothing.

chris_mahan 13y ago
Congressmen have to be re-elected, and they have to show to their constituents that they have done _something_ to protect their privacy... There will be change.
- a3n 13y ago
  Congress at large has the worst approval ratings in years, possibly ever. And yet we keep on mostly re-electing the individuals that make up the body, while in the same breath complaining about Congress.
drivingmenuts 13y ago
Most, if not all, of the SIC members are the politically powerful members of the Senate, who will only be replaced at the polls if they screw up in an unrecoverable way (usually a sex scandal - people remember those). At any rate, because it's a rotating membership, there's no guarantee that anyone with any shred of decency toward privacy will wind up on it.

lifeguard 13y ago

I hope you are correct, but there is a lot of pork in there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel#Definition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel#Definition