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Though some more reasonable forms of this idea exist, this particular description has some major problems: * What if the money you pay someone does not go as f

Though some more reasonable forms of this idea exist, this particular description has some major problems: * What if the money you pay someone does not go as far as expected? Maybe they lose some of the money in various ways, or maybe they are just very bad at negotiating economic transactions or buy the wrong kinds of things from the wrong places. Maybe they are trying to live in an expensive area -- do we kick them out? * There will be a significant class of people who simply know nothing at all about work or participation in the economy. That may have all kinds of bad effects for those people, one of which may be a greater likelihood of the problem above. * Some people who would otherwise be productive will put off both education and work for a while. When the time comes that they want to be involved, it will be hard for them to make the transition, and many will just stay out of the workforce forever. So, some of the ultra-productive people the author is expecting to do the heavy lifting will not exist. * There will be pressure to stop granting new citizenship/residency to almost anyone, because the potential cost will go way up. Even if, in the long term, immigrants are good for the economy, in the short term it could be crushing if each one gets a comfortable living regardless of work. * There will be an imbalance in which jobs are actually done. The number of computer programmers might be higher, but the number of nurses might go way down. If having a nurse is required to make some people comfortable, how do we remedy that? * "Comfort" in general is a moving target in this process because changing the basic income will have a big effect on the economy. It's hard to say whether you could ever really find a stable value that offers anything resembling "comfort" for those living on it.

mrgoldenbrown 13y ago
If the number of nurses willing to work for current rates goes down, then the market rate for nurses will go up. Eventually it will be high enough that being a nurse is more attractive than being a programmer.
- TheFuture 13y ago
  The market rate for investment bankers is more attractive than my job. Doesn't mean I can just be an investment banker tomorrow. Or a nurse. If I live comfortably on my basic income doing whatever, how do I become qualified to work? Remember we have college grads who aren't qualified to work, and they've spent their entire lives being educated.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > The market rate for investment bankers is more attractive than my job. Doesn't mean I can just be an investment banker tomorrow. Or a nurse. If the supply-demand imbalance is sufficient and durable, people looking for nurses / investment bankers / etc. will pay currently-unqualified people with the relevant basic aptitudes to train for those jobs (with a post-training commitment to accept employment if offered, or in the form of loans with guaranteed forgiveness and job placement with satisfactory completion of training, or in some other form.) > If I live comfortably on my basic income doing whatever, how do I become qualified to work? Living comfortably on basic income isn't going to be possible as long as the economy has substantial labor needs. BI is essentially the public holding equal, dividend bearing shares in the commons, for which taxes are use rents. The limit on the value of BI is basically that of the existing capital (including land) contribution to productivity; the potential comfort and value from BI grows with capital (e.g., via automaticn) displacing labor in production. What BI can be is a means of managing the transitions in the economy as automation progresses.
    - ihateloggingin 13y ago
      Well put.
- jeffdavis 13y ago
  Nursing is hard work, and if someone is already "comfortable", there's not a lot of incentive to study for it and do it unless the pay goes WAY up. There are a lot of jobs like this, where the threat of discomfort is the primary motivator. Across the economy it would take a huge amount of money to incentivize already-comfortable people to do them. And if the jobs don't get done, then someone else is uncomfortable.
  - ihateloggingin 13y ago
    Sounds like an ideal situation to incentivize the solution of discomfort without creating more discomfort.
- jeffdavis 13y ago
  Nursing is hard work, and if someone is already "comfortable", there's not a lot of incentive to study for it and do it unless the pay goes WAY up. There are a lot of jobs like this, where the threat of discomfort is the primary motivator. Across the economy it would take a huge amount of money to incentivize already-comfortable people to do them. And if the jobs don't get done, then someone else is uncomfortable.
antitrust 13y ago
Another problem is that it might devalue the currency. When most of it is given away, there's decreased competition for it, and thus its value in the market decreases.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Another problem is that it might devalue the currency. When most of it is given away, there's decreased competition for it, and thus its value in the market decreases. No proposed basic income would give away most of the currency in circulation as BI, which makes that argument somewhat irrelevant.
  - jeffdavis 13y ago
    No proposed scheme plans to give away most of the currency as BI, but some may turn out that way. The scheme proposed here targets "comfort" for everyone, which certainly could cause inflation.

mrgoldenbrown 13y ago

If the number of nurses willing to work for current rates goes down, then the market rate for nurses will go up. Eventually it will be high enough that being a nurse is more attractive than being a programmer.

TheFuture 13y ago
The market rate for investment bankers is more attractive than my job. Doesn't mean I can just be an investment banker tomorrow. Or a nurse. If I live comfortably on my basic income doing whatever, how do I become qualified to work? Remember we have college grads who aren't qualified to work, and they've spent their entire lives being educated.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > The market rate for investment bankers is more attractive than my job. Doesn't mean I can just be an investment banker tomorrow. Or a nurse. If the supply-demand imbalance is sufficient and durable, people looking for nurses / investment bankers / etc. will pay currently-unqualified people with the relevant basic aptitudes to train for those jobs (with a post-training commitment to accept employment if offered, or in the form of loans with guaranteed forgiveness and job placement with satisfactory completion of training, or in some other form.) > If I live comfortably on my basic income doing whatever, how do I become qualified to work? Living comfortably on basic income isn't going to be possible as long as the economy has substantial labor needs. BI is essentially the public holding equal, dividend bearing shares in the commons, for which taxes are use rents. The limit on the value of BI is basically that of the existing capital (including land) contribution to productivity; the potential comfort and value from BI grows with capital (e.g., via automaticn) displacing labor in production. What BI can be is a means of managing the transitions in the economy as automation progresses.
  - ihateloggingin 13y ago
    Well put.
jeffdavis 13y ago
Nursing is hard work, and if someone is already "comfortable", there's not a lot of incentive to study for it and do it unless the pay goes WAY up. There are a lot of jobs like this, where the threat of discomfort is the primary motivator. Across the economy it would take a huge amount of money to incentivize already-comfortable people to do them. And if the jobs don't get done, then someone else is uncomfortable.
- ihateloggingin 13y ago
  Sounds like an ideal situation to incentivize the solution of discomfort without creating more discomfort.
jeffdavis 13y ago
Nursing is hard work, and if someone is already "comfortable", there's not a lot of incentive to study for it and do it unless the pay goes WAY up. There are a lot of jobs like this, where the threat of discomfort is the primary motivator. Across the economy it would take a huge amount of money to incentivize already-comfortable people to do them. And if the jobs don't get done, then someone else is uncomfortable.

antitrust 13y ago

Another problem is that it might devalue the currency. When most of it is given away, there's decreased competition for it, and thus its value in the market decreases.

dragonwriter 13y ago
> Another problem is that it might devalue the currency. When most of it is given away, there's decreased competition for it, and thus its value in the market decreases. No proposed basic income would give away most of the currency in circulation as BI, which makes that argument somewhat irrelevant.
- jeffdavis 13y ago
  No proposed scheme plans to give away most of the currency as BI, but some may turn out that way. The scheme proposed here targets "comfort" for everyone, which certainly could cause inflation.