5 ms·

So from your two examples, discrimination on the basis of one's employer is okay if the employer is not recognized as legitimate by the state, taxes are not rem

So from your two examples, discrimination on the basis of one's employer is okay if the employer is not recognized as legitimate by the state, taxes are not remitted, etc. How do you decide if it's okay or not to discriminate against employees when the employer in question is legal? You say it's never bad. How do you know that? Is it okay for the IRS to discriminate on the basis of one's employer? What about other arms of the government?

mcantelon 13y ago
>How do you decide if it's okay or not to discriminate against employees when the employer in question is legal? What is legal and what is ethical are not necessarily the same thing, hence laws changing to make slavery illegal, etc. Ethical considerations often result in the changing of laws.
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  So ethical things can be illegal, unethical things can be legal. Would discrimination against the employees of a legal employer in one's own state (country) ever be unethical?
  - mcantelon 13y ago
    >Would discrimination against the employees of a legal employer in one's own state (country) ever be unethical? Of course. Feel free to skip the leading questions and make whatever point you're working towards.
    - rfnslyr 13y ago
      He needs to stop playing devils advocate. It's painfully obvious you are right. Why on earth would you want someone to leech information from a hacking convention to be used against those very same people? Fuck that. Ban whoever you need to ban.
    - foobarbazqux 13y ago
      I'm trying to understand how your mind works, I'm not making a specific point or leading you in a certain direction. It doesn't help when you don't answer questions directly, it looks like you're trying to avoid answering them - this could have been less painful. For my part I could have been less obtuse and aggressive. I believe that discriminating against someone on the basis of their legal employment is unethical and you don't, so I'm trying to determine when it's okay and when it's not okay. What I've learned is that some people (including you) believe that sometimes it's okay to discriminate against people on the basis of their legal employment and sometimes it's not, and that it's up to whether the employment in question goes against your own personal ethical standards. I'm not condemning this discrimination, only noting that it goes against my own personal ethics. People need jobs to survive, and even Snowden spent more of his life as a bad guy than as a hero. I'm fine with discriminating against work, but not against workers. If you want to explore the issue in more depth, fine - maybe there are more nuances - but I understand if you're tired of it.
      - deathcakes 13y ago
        In the case where you are able to make a choice about which job you take then yes you definitely should be held to account for that choice. Because it is a moral one. You had the choice of hacking for the good of people or you could join forces with 'The Man' and make a bunch of money. Maybe the choice isn't so binary, but nonetheless the choice is there. I could understand your statement, 'People need jobs to survive', if your profession was bricklayer, or shelf-stacker, but being a no doubt highly qualified individual in a booming field, as Snowden is, does not generally leave you scrambling to pay the rent and buy your groceries.
        foobarbazqux 13y ago
        So is it ethical for universities to reject applicants on the basis of their past/present/future employers being unethical in the selection committee's eyes?
        lookguyz 13y ago
  - tripzilch 13y ago
    > So ethical things can be illegal, unethical things can be legal. Ding ding ding. Please keep this in mind at all times. They not only can be, but unfortunately both often are.
    - foobarbazqux 13y ago
      It's interesting to me that you thought this was the first time I'd encountered this idea. I guess I need to work on my communication skills. Also, this is a bit off-topic, but "ding ding ding" is rather condescending. I believe you think I'm somebody that I'm not.
deleted 13y ago
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mcantelon 13y ago

>How do you decide if it's okay or not to discriminate against employees when the employer in question is legal? What is legal and what is ethical are not necessarily the same thing, hence laws changing to make slavery illegal, etc. Ethical considerations often result in the changing of laws.

foobarbazqux 13y ago
So ethical things can be illegal, unethical things can be legal. Would discrimination against the employees of a legal employer in one's own state (country) ever be unethical?
- mcantelon 13y ago
  >Would discrimination against the employees of a legal employer in one's own state (country) ever be unethical? Of course. Feel free to skip the leading questions and make whatever point you're working towards.
  - rfnslyr 13y ago
    He needs to stop playing devils advocate. It's painfully obvious you are right. Why on earth would you want someone to leech information from a hacking convention to be used against those very same people? Fuck that. Ban whoever you need to ban.
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    I'm trying to understand how your mind works, I'm not making a specific point or leading you in a certain direction. It doesn't help when you don't answer questions directly, it looks like you're trying to avoid answering them - this could have been less painful. For my part I could have been less obtuse and aggressive. I believe that discriminating against someone on the basis of their legal employment is unethical and you don't, so I'm trying to determine when it's okay and when it's not okay. What I've learned is that some people (including you) believe that sometimes it's okay to discriminate against people on the basis of their legal employment and sometimes it's not, and that it's up to whether the employment in question goes against your own personal ethical standards. I'm not condemning this discrimination, only noting that it goes against my own personal ethics. People need jobs to survive, and even Snowden spent more of his life as a bad guy than as a hero. I'm fine with discriminating against work, but not against workers. If you want to explore the issue in more depth, fine - maybe there are more nuances - but I understand if you're tired of it.
    - deathcakes 13y ago
      In the case where you are able to make a choice about which job you take then yes you definitely should be held to account for that choice. Because it is a moral one. You had the choice of hacking for the good of people or you could join forces with 'The Man' and make a bunch of money. Maybe the choice isn't so binary, but nonetheless the choice is there. I could understand your statement, 'People need jobs to survive', if your profession was bricklayer, or shelf-stacker, but being a no doubt highly qualified individual in a booming field, as Snowden is, does not generally leave you scrambling to pay the rent and buy your groceries.
      - foobarbazqux 13y ago
        So is it ethical for universities to reject applicants on the basis of their past/present/future employers being unethical in the selection committee's eyes?
        lookguyz 13y ago
- tripzilch 13y ago
  > So ethical things can be illegal, unethical things can be legal. Ding ding ding. Please keep this in mind at all times. They not only can be, but unfortunately both often are.
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    It's interesting to me that you thought this was the first time I'd encountered this idea. I guess I need to work on my communication skills. Also, this is a bit off-topic, but "ding ding ding" is rather condescending. I believe you think I'm somebody that I'm not.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]