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I'm skeptical. For the past few years that I've been attending, defcon felt at some times like an instrument for fed recruiting while paying lip service to its

I'm skeptical. For the past few years that I've been attending, defcon felt at some times like an instrument for fed recruiting while paying lip service to its original "underground" feel. DT's message almost felt like posturing to underline the latter rather than a sincere statement to curtail the former. I won't pretend that I'm a long time attendee (my first was DC16), so I would love to hear from some more seasoned attendees if my impression is correct. Edit: the reason for that impression is that there is no declaration of a policy in his message (e.g. "feds are prohibited from soliciting employees at DC21"), rather a soft "time-out". With all due respect to DT, neither we nor the feds are in the third grade. Contrast this with their strict journalist policy and recall how that undercover reporter was outed and kicked out/chased away a few years ago.

_delirium 13y ago
You might have felt like that because the original organizer, "Dark Tangent" aka Jeff Moss, turned state's evidence in 2009. He's been on the federal payroll ever since. Here, he's trying to pose as an anti-fed activist while simultaneously drawing a Department of Homeland Security paycheck.
dobbsbob 13y ago
I went to DC in the 90s and almost everybody you ran into was doing something illegal, like the Shadowcrew guys and a team of motorola hackers I mainly hung out with. Almost every talk gave hommage to whatever current hacker was in prison or on the run, and typically was anti fed, anti surviellance and anti copyright. Totally different now because at the time felt like the whole culture was under seige by overzealous feds and there was constant rumours of feds watching the exits with surveillance like we were the mafia or something
forgottenpass 13y ago
I had written more here, but even after cutting down this post is still to long. Basically the evolution of DC is in large part a response to its own success. 13k attendees (IIRC) is going to change things, and any difference makes it easy to get disenchanted and/or nay-say. I don't think the attitude and execution have gotten worse overall, just different. the reason for that impression is that there is no declaration of a policy in his message Defcon knows they can't dictate everything that happens, only influence it. Feds are going to be there one way or another, thats why DT had an "invite the feds" attitude from the beginning. To hear some goons tell it, the "spot the fed" game was created as a social device to reduce animosity between attendees and law enforcement while also reminding everyone that strangers at the convention aren't your friends. Even with enforcing hard and fast ideas (like the journalism boundary) they start off with a light touch. They gave the reporter many chances to stop snooping about and get a press badge. Before letting us into the convention center on day one red shirts were giving out warnings. That was days before she was publicly called out in one of the panels and marched out of the Riv. As you say, we're not in third grade. But defcon does know it, and understand they can't keep people out a no-names cash-transaction event based on attendee employer. The most they can hope to do is say "Hey, maybe not so much this year?" Time will tell how it plays out, but the last thing I would call it is an attempt to save face or change the image of the event. I thought it was 100% DT playing a joke at first, and I still think its a joke now, just one with a message.

_delirium 13y ago

You might have felt like that because the original organizer, "Dark Tangent" aka Jeff Moss, turned state's evidence in 2009. He's been on the federal payroll ever since. Here, he's trying to pose as an anti-fed activist while simultaneously drawing a Department of Homeland Security paycheck.

dobbsbob 13y ago

I went to DC in the 90s and almost everybody you ran into was doing something illegal, like the Shadowcrew guys and a team of motorola hackers I mainly hung out with. Almost every talk gave hommage to whatever current hacker was in prison or on the run, and typically was anti fed, anti surviellance and anti copyright. Totally different now because at the time felt like the whole culture was under seige by overzealous feds and there was constant rumours of feds watching the exits with surveillance like we were the mafia or something

forgottenpass 13y ago

I had written more here, but even after cutting down this post is still to long. Basically the evolution of DC is in large part a response to its own success. 13k attendees (IIRC) is going to change things, and any difference makes it easy to get disenchanted and/or nay-say. I don't think the attitude and execution have gotten worse overall, just different. the reason for that impression is that there is no declaration of a policy in his message Defcon knows they can't dictate everything that happens, only influence it. Feds are going to be there one way or another, thats why DT had an "invite the feds" attitude from the beginning. To hear some goons tell it, the "spot the fed" game was created as a social device to reduce animosity between attendees and law enforcement while also reminding everyone that strangers at the convention aren't your friends. Even with enforcing hard and fast ideas (like the journalism boundary) they start off with a light touch. They gave the reporter many chances to stop snooping about and get a press badge. Before letting us into the convention center on day one red shirts were giving out warnings. That was days before she was publicly called out in one of the panels and marched out of the Riv. As you say, we're not in third grade. But defcon does know it, and understand they can't keep people out a no-names cash-transaction event based on attendee employer. The most they can hope to do is say "Hey, maybe not so much this year?" Time will tell how it plays out, but the last thing I would call it is an attempt to save face or change the image of the event. I thought it was 100% DT playing a joke at first, and I still think its a joke now, just one with a message.