4 ms·

You can't make this shit up. > Police in North Dakota borrowed a $154 million MQ-9 Predator B drone from the Department of Homeland Security to arrest a family

by enko 13y ago

You can't make this shit up. > Police in North Dakota borrowed a $154 million MQ-9 Predator B drone from the Department of Homeland Security to arrest a family of anti-government separatists who refused to return six cows that wandered onto their farm.

blhack 13y ago
That's really misleading. There is a base in Grand Forks, ND that houses several CBP (Customs and Border Patrol) Predator Drones, and they work with local law enforcement when asked to. So, more than likely, the drone is going to be flying home here anyway, and made a pass over some property. The facility where these things are flown from isn't some top secret bunker or anything, it's an office building on the air force base, and they give tours to local schools[1]. A local cop probably just stood behind one of the pilots while they flew over the property and spotted the cows. Also: to somebody who didn't grow up in this area, that probably sounds really silly...but keep in mind that cows are worth a couple of thousand dollars each. So you're talking, low end, about $12,000 worth of property that they won't return. That's like having a stolen car. -- I think something like this (flying a UAV, since CBP doesn't actually fly drones) should require a search warrant, but this is a totally reasonable use of resources IMHO. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, I guess. [1]: They'd probably give a tour to anybody that asked, actually. Grand Forks is home to one of the biggest and best Aviation and Aerospace engineering schools in the world[2], and it would surprise me if there wasn't a relationship between the air force base there, and the school. If any HNers are ever up there, I'd suggest asking for a tour. [2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Odegard_School_of_Aerospace_Sciences http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Odegard_School_of_Aeros...
- enko 13y ago
  Well, it's quoting from the ACLU feature. The headline does take a certain stance, but 10 years ago it would sound like some joke headline from Robocop. I'm not a US citizen but if I was I'd love to take that tour.
- rickdale 13y ago
  I don't think the comment is misleading at all. I think its pretty accurate and makes a succinct point about the current state of affairs.
- freditup 13y ago
  Thanks for the counterpoint. I'm completely of the mindset that police should take the mindset of community-servants first (perhaps the fighting mentality is appropriate in certain situations at specific times.) But so many of these kinds of articles (not this one specifically) take anecdotal incidents, tell them from one specific viewpoint that makes the cops look like trash, and expect you to be all outraged with them. I'm personally not going to get outraged until things are prevented in a fair light and I can decide if things are over-militarized.
- thenomad 13y ago
  Thanks - really interesting and reassuring comment! Much appreciated.
- ljf 13y ago
  2k for a cow? Try 60 dollars...http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-resources/cow-calf/prices/cow-prices-by-us--state-114538214.html http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-resources/cow-calf/price...
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - blhack 13y ago
    I'm looking around the internet, and seeing prices all over the place actually. $60 is the lowest I've seen, NASDAQ.com says $120, some farming websites are saying $1000-$2000, etc.
    - dtparr 13y ago
      If you're seeing numbers < $200, those are almost certainly in $/ctw which is the price per 100 lbs.
  - dtparr 13y ago
    Cattle prices are listed in $/cwt ($ per 100 pounds), and most prices you find like this are the price when you want to slaughter the animal. If you're looking for something for breeding, the prices can be substantially higher.
- _ap 13y ago
  > I think something like this (flying a UAV, since CBP doesn't actually fly drones) should require a search warrant, but this is a totally reasonable use of resources IMHO. The Supreme Court decided in 1986 that aerial surveillance of a person's backyard did not require a warrant. Then again, the search was conducted by a human only using his "naked eye". See California v. Ciraolo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Ciraolo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Ciraolo
tzs 13y ago
> North Dakota [...] a family of anti-government separatists Were these the kind of anti-government separatists who are harmless quirky people who confine their anti-government activity to blogs and leaflets, or the kind of anti-government separatists who amass a ton of weapons and declare themselves independent and vow to shoot any government agents who "invade" their sovereign territory?
- moron4hire 13y ago
  or are they anti-government separatists because one time they reshared a link on Facebook to an article mentioning Ron Paul?
tptacek 13y ago
The MQ-9 doesn't cost $154MM; more like 1/10th of that, list.
- enko 13y ago
  You're right. The error is from here: http://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform/predator-drones-seeking-lost-cows http://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform/predator-drones-seek... I thought it sounded awfully high. Egregious errors like that don't auger well for the reliability of the rest of the article.

by enko 13y ago

blhack 13y ago

That's really misleading. There is a base in Grand Forks, ND that houses several CBP (Customs and Border Patrol) Predator Drones, and they work with local law enforcement when asked to. So, more than likely, the drone is going to be flying home here anyway, and made a pass over some property. The facility where these things are flown from isn't some top secret bunker or anything, it's an office building on the air force base, and they give tours to local schools[1]. A local cop probably just stood behind one of the pilots while they flew over the property and spotted the cows. Also: to somebody who didn't grow up in this area, that probably sounds really silly...but keep in mind that cows are worth a couple of thousand dollars each. So you're talking, low end, about $12,000 worth of property that they won't return. That's like having a stolen car. -- I think something like this (flying a UAV, since CBP doesn't actually fly drones) should require a search warrant, but this is a totally reasonable use of resources IMHO. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, I guess. [1]: They'd probably give a tour to anybody that asked, actually. Grand Forks is home to one of the biggest and best Aviation and Aerospace engineering schools in the world[2], and it would surprise me if there wasn't a relationship between the air force base there, and the school. If any HNers are ever up there, I'd suggest asking for a tour. [2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Odegard_School_of_Aerospace_Sciences http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Odegard_School_of_Aeros...

enko 13y ago
Well, it's quoting from the ACLU feature. The headline does take a certain stance, but 10 years ago it would sound like some joke headline from Robocop. I'm not a US citizen but if I was I'd love to take that tour.
rickdale 13y ago
I don't think the comment is misleading at all. I think its pretty accurate and makes a succinct point about the current state of affairs.
freditup 13y ago
Thanks for the counterpoint. I'm completely of the mindset that police should take the mindset of community-servants first (perhaps the fighting mentality is appropriate in certain situations at specific times.) But so many of these kinds of articles (not this one specifically) take anecdotal incidents, tell them from one specific viewpoint that makes the cops look like trash, and expect you to be all outraged with them. I'm personally not going to get outraged until things are prevented in a fair light and I can decide if things are over-militarized.
thenomad 13y ago
Thanks - really interesting and reassuring comment! Much appreciated.
ljf 13y ago
2k for a cow? Try 60 dollars...http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-resources/cow-calf/prices/cow-prices-by-us--state-114538214.html http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-resources/cow-calf/price...
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- blhack 13y ago
  I'm looking around the internet, and seeing prices all over the place actually. $60 is the lowest I've seen, NASDAQ.com says $120, some farming websites are saying $1000-$2000, etc.
  - dtparr 13y ago
    If you're seeing numbers < $200, those are almost certainly in $/ctw which is the price per 100 lbs.
- dtparr 13y ago
  Cattle prices are listed in $/cwt ($ per 100 pounds), and most prices you find like this are the price when you want to slaughter the animal. If you're looking for something for breeding, the prices can be substantially higher.
_ap 13y ago
> I think something like this (flying a UAV, since CBP doesn't actually fly drones) should require a search warrant, but this is a totally reasonable use of resources IMHO. The Supreme Court decided in 1986 that aerial surveillance of a person's backyard did not require a warrant. Then again, the search was conducted by a human only using his "naked eye". See California v. Ciraolo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Ciraolo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Ciraolo

tzs 13y ago

> North Dakota [...] a family of anti-government separatists Were these the kind of anti-government separatists who are harmless quirky people who confine their anti-government activity to blogs and leaflets, or the kind of anti-government separatists who amass a ton of weapons and declare themselves independent and vow to shoot any government agents who "invade" their sovereign territory?

moron4hire 13y ago
or are they anti-government separatists because one time they reshared a link on Facebook to an article mentioning Ron Paul?

tptacek 13y ago

The MQ-9 doesn't cost $154MM; more like 1/10th of that, list.

enko 13y ago
You're right. The error is from here: http://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform/predator-drones-seeking-lost-cows http://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform/predator-drones-seek... I thought it sounded awfully high. Egregious errors like that don't auger well for the reliability of the rest of the article.