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The real problem is that "direct access to servers" is not a specific term. Given the various definitions it could have, everyone could be being truthful. Some
by moskie 13y ago
The real problem is that "direct access to servers" is not a specific term. Given the various definitions it could have, everyone could be being truthful.
Some would interpret "direct access" to mean root level access to their entire infrastructure, which sounds absurd to me, yet some people seem to believe that's what's happening. And it's my understanding that this is what Google, facebook, etc. have been denying. They could instead be giving "direct access" to an FTP server or some other portal set up to provide the requested data, meaning that Snowden and these slides are being truthful in that context.
I also think it could be argued that we all gain "direct access" to Google's servers every time we type "www.google.com" into a browser's address bar. It is just not a useful term, and should be replaced with something more specific in all these instances.
- mpyne 13y ago> It is just not a useful term, and should be replaced with something more specific in all these instances How about "collection directly from the server of..." just like it appeared in the actual slide, instead of 'direct access' as everyone else misquotes it?
- moskie 13y agoBut it seems like that still has all the ambiguity I mentioned. It could still be construed as root level access, or an FTP server, or anything in between. Also realize that Glenn Greenwald shares a good amount of blame for this misquote. The first line in the first article about PRISM is "The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants." (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-n...)
- trestles 13y agoThe problem is with Greenwald / Snowden - they needed to provide indisputable evidence regarding their most garish claims; or `direct access` to a representation of the evidence
- mpyne 13y ago> Also realize that Glenn Greenwald shares a good amount of blame for this misquote I agree, and have said as much multiple times. But that's no reason to continue to perpetuate the usage of a semantically-different variant of the original quote, especially with all the other data we have on PRISM now that can help disambiguate what the original quote could reasonably be construed as.
- morpher 13y agoCompared to data intercepted from "upstream", any data sent in response to a FISA request would be "directly from company X's servers". That doesn't necessarily imply that the NSA has direct access to the servers.