3 ms·

> It's just cleaner, and makes it easier, visually, to separate layout from code. That's true, and I think PHP would be better for it if there were three kinds

by Udo 13y ago

> It's just cleaner, and makes it easier, visually, to separate layout from code. That's true, and I think PHP would be better for it if there were three kinds of files by convention: pure code, layout, and entry points that are actually callable (the other two shouldn't be invokable by typing in their URL). It's trivial to configure a webserver to handle them differently, but it's impossible if you're writing code that needs to run everywhere. However, I would not say that {$blah} is that much more readable than <?= $blah ?>, not to the extent that the complexity and cost of running a separate engine is justified.

krapp 13y ago
Depending on how the code is structured, it might not matter much either way in terms of legibility (assuming the sight of something like if($foo){ ?> <?php echo $bar; ?> <?php } doesn't set your teeth on edge to begin with), but I do think the former is easier to type and maintain which in PHP to me counts for a lot. Then again I never use the short tags so i'm adding at least those three characters of overhead per variable anyway. Also, having the views inline couples them to whatever logic they happen to be in, so the templates are less portable. A lot of templating engines will meet you halfway and compile down to classes so they don't reinterpret the templates each time. YMMV I guess.
- Udo 13y ago
 Yes, but if you're using short tags, things can be better ;) <? if($foo) { ?> <?= $bar ?> <? } ?> True, it's not as nice as a templating language, but then again, it doesn't have the aforementioned limitations either. Inlining views is a choice, it tend to avoid this. Just because templating engines prevent this pattern doesn't mean you'll be forced to use it in plain PHP. Re-interpreting templates is also an interesting case. Of course, native templates will pretty much always be faster so the need to cache isn't as pressing. But still, with the built-in output buffer functions it's easy to do something like do_some_caching(function() { include('sometemplate'); });
 - krapp 13y ago
 I was playing around with Slim framework recently and I 'discovered' the option in the PDO driver to fetch into a class. Add a parent class to the data classes (with magic setters and getters, having the getter wrap everything in htmlspecialchars)[1] and you really can, probably, accomplish most of what a lot of templating systems do (and a good chunk of MVC with the serial numbers filed off) with a fraction of the code in most frameworks and, say, Twig. Even static caching probably, using output buffering. [1]http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8898794/using-pdofetch-class-with-magic-methods http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8898794/using-pdofetch-cl...

by Udo 13y ago

krapp 13y ago

Depending on how the code is structured, it might not matter much either way in terms of legibility (assuming the sight of something like if($foo){ ?> <?php echo $bar; ?> <?php } doesn't set your teeth on edge to begin with), but I do think the former is easier to type and maintain which in PHP to me counts for a lot. Then again I never use the short tags so i'm adding at least those three characters of overhead per variable anyway. Also, having the views inline couples them to whatever logic they happen to be in, so the templates are less portable. A lot of templating engines will meet you halfway and compile down to classes so they don't reinterpret the templates each time. YMMV I guess.

Udo 13y ago
Yes, but if you're using short tags, things can be better ;) <? if($foo) { ?> <?= $bar ?> <? } ?> True, it's not as nice as a templating language, but then again, it doesn't have the aforementioned limitations either. Inlining views is a choice, it tend to avoid this. Just because templating engines prevent this pattern doesn't mean you'll be forced to use it in plain PHP. Re-interpreting templates is also an interesting case. Of course, native templates will pretty much always be faster so the need to cache isn't as pressing. But still, with the built-in output buffer functions it's easy to do something like do_some_caching(function() { include('sometemplate'); });
- krapp 13y ago
 I was playing around with Slim framework recently and I 'discovered' the option in the PDO driver to fetch into a class. Add a parent class to the data classes (with magic setters and getters, having the getter wrap everything in htmlspecialchars)[1] and you really can, probably, accomplish most of what a lot of templating systems do (and a good chunk of MVC with the serial numbers filed off) with a fraction of the code in most frameworks and, say, Twig. Even static caching probably, using output buffering. [1]http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8898794/using-pdofetch-class-with-magic-methods http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8898794/using-pdofetch-cl...