6 ms·

"But it's true. It is hard, but that's okay. The whole point of the grading system was to acknowledge subtlety; that it's okay if you don't have an A, because i

by gems 13y ago

"But it's true. It is hard, but that's okay. The whole point of the grading system was to acknowledge subtlety; that it's okay if you don't have an A, because it doesn't mean you haven't learnt anything, it just means you haven't learnt everything [in that course]. But somehow many students seem to take it as the end of the world not to achieve that A, when really that isn't the important thing at all." That's what I believed at first. Then I realized how concerned authorities are with grades. If you're looking to do work with some research group, people want to know your grades. If you want to get into certain graduate schools, you'll most likely end up competing with people with high grades. Grades aren't a super important determining factor but, of course, they are considered and they can be treated as a negative indicator if poor. Nobody really cares that you decided to challenge yourself. If you don't at least try to optimize for grades, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot. If you don't optimize for grades, you'll be competing with people who do.

jey 13y ago
That's only true in the absence of other signals. If you look at it as instead a problem of "how do I convince X that I am the person they're looking for?", you can consider all possible strategies, and additional signals that you could provide to demonstrate your worth. Grades are a very imperfect signal, but often times it's the only signal provided by the applicant.
- gems 13y ago
  Of course. But do you realize that some groups/schools filter by GPA? You don't even get considered unless you're above a certain threshold. How do send other signals then? Are you going to try to talk with the professors personally? How and when are you going to do that? edit: furthermore, how do you know the professor can single-handedly have any impact on who gets admitted into the program?
  - jey 13y ago
    > Are you going to try to talk with the professors personally? Sure, that's a pretty good idea. > How and when are you going to do that? Figure it out. If you want a cookbook solution, the answer is probably to just play the GPA game.
    - gems 13y ago
      That was sort of a trap. It's considered bad practice in academia to bypass the committees and speak with the professors directly. Professors usually say in their home pages something to the effect of 'if you want to do research with me, apply to the school, do not contact me directly, I will ignore you'.
      - Osmium 13y ago
        Really? I know someone who got a PhD position by doing just that. Talking to a professor directly seems like a great idea as long you're sure you're not wasting their time (i.e. that you're a suitable candidate). Even if you don't get the position, there's still a lot of value to be had from a conversation (for both parties).
        gems 13y ago
        Off the top of my head I can come up with 3 professors at my school who say that on their home page. My perspective may be too cynical though.
        lmm 13y ago
        Or not cynical enough. They no doubt say that because it's expected, and/or because they don't want to be contacted by thousands of hopefuls. It doesn't mean it's true.
      - pjungwir 13y ago
        I've never seen such a note, and I've known several people who got into a department by talking directly with the professors there. I'm sure there is a difference between asking idle questions or trying to ingratiate yourself and posing specific informed, research-oriented questions because you're honestly interested, though.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  >>That's only true in the absence of other signals. The problem is that the vast majority of HR departments do not have the time to look at those other signals. Resumes are filtered based on GPA and other measurable numbers first.
  - warfangle 13y ago
    I don't even put my GPA on my resume anymore. And likely, if it's a large zombie-automated HR department, I wouldn't want to work there anyways.
    - xtracto 13y ago
      And you should not, unless your GPA tells something outstanding about you. I do put it, because I can say that with that score (not GPA, but 94/100 score) I was the best of my class/generation. The Resume is an advertisement, you don't see Coca-Cola advertising that their sugary drinks can make people fat.
Osmium 13y ago
> If you're looking to do work with some research group, people want to know your grades. If you want to get into certain graduate schools, you'll most likely end up competing with people with high grades. As a counter-point to this, to anyone reading who might be discouraged, the research groups I personally know mostly care about sufficient grades (i.e. that you're smart, hard-working, not stupid). The ability to get outstanding grades doesn't correlate that well with research ability; it just correlates well with your ability to do exams. Given sufficient grades, it's infinitely more important that, say, an addition to your research group is able to work well with the other people in it than what specific grades they got, and the people making the hiring choices are keenly aware of this. And when you get beyond your PhD, it's your publication record that people are really going to care about anyway. If you get good papers into good journals, no one gives a crap about your grades.
- gems 13y ago
  I go to a large school. My impression is that GPA is a convenient measure to use to select candidates. At my school, you get lots of applications submitted for certain academic positions. If you're the one trying to pick the students, how do you pick the most qualified?
beachstartup 13y ago
> Grades aren't a super important determining factor i would disagree with this. they are THE determining factor in 9 out of 10 things you want to do post-college, and grades follow you for LIFE. the reason i started a company is because i didn't have the grades to do anything else except be a bottom-rung coder (not even at a "good" company), which I did for a few years after school. i graduated a very good UC with a 2.01 C average (i BARELY graduated, i was put on academic probation 3x, and took an entire quarter off at one point). i'm not kidding around when i say "i'm a terrible student" like some people do - i actually had D's and F's and plenty of W's on my transcript. even with 5+ years of owning a successful business, if i were to apply to b-school or masters/phd program, they'd probably reject my ass. when was the last time you heard of a C student getting into a worthwhile grad school?
- aetherson 13y ago
  I don't know what kind of companies you're interviewing with, but I assure you that my present employers, my previous employers, and the ones before that had no idea what my GPA was. While grades do follow you for a while, it's a gross overreaction to suggest that they follow you "for life" in a business setting.
  - beachstartup 13y ago
    i was just saying they follow you for life if you want to do anything that requires grades. the "other stuff" you do doesn't always make up for the fact that you got shitty marks.
- gems 13y ago
  Huh? I'm telling you how top graduate schools consider applicants. They usually weight research and letters the highest, then grades, then GRE scores.
  - beachstartup 13y ago
    yeah, and i'm telling you how i was utterly unqualified for any of that, because of my grades.

by gems 13y ago

jey 13y ago

That's only true in the absence of other signals. If you look at it as instead a problem of "how do I convince X that I am the person they're looking for?", you can consider all possible strategies, and additional signals that you could provide to demonstrate your worth. Grades are a very imperfect signal, but often times it's the only signal provided by the applicant.

gems 13y ago
Of course. But do you realize that some groups/schools filter by GPA? You don't even get considered unless you're above a certain threshold. How do send other signals then? Are you going to try to talk with the professors personally? How and when are you going to do that? edit: furthermore, how do you know the professor can single-handedly have any impact on who gets admitted into the program?
- jey 13y ago
  > Are you going to try to talk with the professors personally? Sure, that's a pretty good idea. > How and when are you going to do that? Figure it out. If you want a cookbook solution, the answer is probably to just play the GPA game.
  - gems 13y ago
    That was sort of a trap. It's considered bad practice in academia to bypass the committees and speak with the professors directly. Professors usually say in their home pages something to the effect of 'if you want to do research with me, apply to the school, do not contact me directly, I will ignore you'.
    - Osmium 13y ago
      Really? I know someone who got a PhD position by doing just that. Talking to a professor directly seems like a great idea as long you're sure you're not wasting their time (i.e. that you're a suitable candidate). Even if you don't get the position, there's still a lot of value to be had from a conversation (for both parties).
      - gems 13y ago
        Off the top of my head I can come up with 3 professors at my school who say that on their home page. My perspective may be too cynical though.
        lmm 13y ago
        Or not cynical enough. They no doubt say that because it's expected, and/or because they don't want to be contacted by thousands of hopefuls. It doesn't mean it's true.
    - pjungwir 13y ago
      I've never seen such a note, and I've known several people who got into a department by talking directly with the professors there. I'm sure there is a difference between asking idle questions or trying to ingratiate yourself and posing specific informed, research-oriented questions because you're honestly interested, though.
enraged_camel 13y ago
>>That's only true in the absence of other signals. The problem is that the vast majority of HR departments do not have the time to look at those other signals. Resumes are filtered based on GPA and other measurable numbers first.
- warfangle 13y ago
  I don't even put my GPA on my resume anymore. And likely, if it's a large zombie-automated HR department, I wouldn't want to work there anyways.
  - xtracto 13y ago
    And you should not, unless your GPA tells something outstanding about you. I do put it, because I can say that with that score (not GPA, but 94/100 score) I was the best of my class/generation. The Resume is an advertisement, you don't see Coca-Cola advertising that their sugary drinks can make people fat.

Osmium 13y ago

> If you're looking to do work with some research group, people want to know your grades. If you want to get into certain graduate schools, you'll most likely end up competing with people with high grades. As a counter-point to this, to anyone reading who might be discouraged, the research groups I personally know mostly care about sufficient grades (i.e. that you're smart, hard-working, not stupid). The ability to get outstanding grades doesn't correlate that well with research ability; it just correlates well with your ability to do exams. Given sufficient grades, it's infinitely more important that, say, an addition to your research group is able to work well with the other people in it than what specific grades they got, and the people making the hiring choices are keenly aware of this. And when you get beyond your PhD, it's your publication record that people are really going to care about anyway. If you get good papers into good journals, no one gives a crap about your grades.

gems 13y ago
I go to a large school. My impression is that GPA is a convenient measure to use to select candidates. At my school, you get lots of applications submitted for certain academic positions. If you're the one trying to pick the students, how do you pick the most qualified?

beachstartup 13y ago

> Grades aren't a super important determining factor i would disagree with this. they are THE determining factor in 9 out of 10 things you want to do post-college, and grades follow you for LIFE. the reason i started a company is because i didn't have the grades to do anything else except be a bottom-rung coder (not even at a "good" company), which I did for a few years after school. i graduated a very good UC with a 2.01 C average (i BARELY graduated, i was put on academic probation 3x, and took an entire quarter off at one point). i'm not kidding around when i say "i'm a terrible student" like some people do - i actually had D's and F's and plenty of W's on my transcript. even with 5+ years of owning a successful business, if i were to apply to b-school or masters/phd program, they'd probably reject my ass. when was the last time you heard of a C student getting into a worthwhile grad school?

aetherson 13y ago
I don't know what kind of companies you're interviewing with, but I assure you that my present employers, my previous employers, and the ones before that had no idea what my GPA was. While grades do follow you for a while, it's a gross overreaction to suggest that they follow you "for life" in a business setting.
- beachstartup 13y ago
  i was just saying they follow you for life if you want to do anything that requires grades. the "other stuff" you do doesn't always make up for the fact that you got shitty marks.
gems 13y ago
Huh? I'm telling you how top graduate schools consider applicants. They usually weight research and letters the highest, then grades, then GRE scores.
- beachstartup 13y ago
  yeah, and i'm telling you how i was utterly unqualified for any of that, because of my grades.