4 ms·

>She relates stories about how employees would come by to play with the prototypes, so there appeared to be some interest from a gaming perspective. She elabora

>She relates stories about how employees would come by to play with the prototypes, so there appeared to be some interest from a gaming perspective. She elaborates that there are disincentives to work on risky or less-visible projects because of the way that the bonuses work. Assuming what she says is accurate, that sounds like a legitimate problem. She may well have a point, but that doesn't change the fact that she herself admitted her prototype was way to cumbersome to clamour interest and she hoped that newer, smaller versions would help this. It also doesn't change the gameplay sounded like an AR version of D&D, which makes it sound like a bunch of geeks playing with toy swords dressed in cloaks. Fun for some, but not exactly a direct parallel to PC gaming. >The problem was specifically that they found machinists who were qualified and willing, but were rejected at the eleventh hour for not being a culture fit. That is a problem. I know the conventional wisdom around here is that office culture is king, but there should be some amount of flexibility in order to staff necessary positions. Watching the video, it sounded a lot more like it was Engineers being rejected at the 11th hour while machinists were never on the agenda.

talmand 13y ago
I see this as two different complaints. I would agree that her project didn't sound too interesting but that doesn't necessarily discredit the complaints not directly relating to her project. Well, the fact her project didn't have big bonuses associated to it is indeed a formula for creating a problem since that's a financial incentive to not get involved. And it is rather difficult to make hardware if you don't hire people that make hardware.
- ownagefool 13y ago
  I dunno how big the bonuses are, but I honestly hope that people joining valve aren't doing it for the money. Sure extra money is always good, but I imagine you try to join valve for the love. Still, I'm going to conceed the point. However, cheeky counter. Valve spends over 5 years making sequels to half life. They're not a quick company and yet they fired her because she was abrasive after only one year of employment while workong on an R&D project. In other words, she comes across as extremely impatient. End of the day though, she can prove everyone wrong by her project going huge after the kickstarter. However, if I were in her shoes, I wouldn't be bitterly dissing my ex-employer, I'd be estatic that they'd handed me what I thought was a gold mine. :p
  - talmand 13y ago
    I would imagine no one outside of Valve knows for sure but I've seen it mentioned in several places, including in one of her interviews, that the bonuses can be quite substantial. Personally, I see the length of time that Valve takes to make their games as a sign of problems. If she were fired for being impatient enough to actually wanting to do something NOW, then that further proves the point in my mind. I would hope that wasn't the issue because it seems silly to fire someone over the fact that they like to produce things in a timely manner. But, I suppose it's possible because it more or less fits the story we're hearing from her. I'm also guessing the reason some of their games take so long is because they have serious watershed moments where everybody wants a say in the game so they can get in on the bonuses. I don't see her as being bitter towards Valve, but towards the small group within Valve that she feels is behind her and her team being fired. Which is totally understandable. From what I read, granted her words, I'm assuming that Gabe handed over the project to her because she got a raw deal.
    - ownagefool 13y ago
      >Personally, I see the length of time that Valve takes to make their games as a sign of problems. Valve make money and they make some of the best PC games about. Even if they're not your thing, it's hard to call love and polish a problem in a world where most of the moved loved series have been slated with their recent releases. >I would hope that wasn't the issue because it seems silly to fire someone over the fact that they like to produce things in a timely manner. But, I suppose it's possible because it more or less fits the story we're hearing from her. >Which is totally understandable. From what I read, granted her words, I'm assuming that Gabe handed over the project to her because she got a raw deal. My guess was more along the lines of Gabe not thinking she had anything because she mentioned they were some serious major hints that her project didn't have interesting gameplay metrics. I have to admit, like I did in my first post on this subject that I'm bias because I don't believe in the idea, but I find it strange that most people are behind her despite the fact it doesn't sound like she's got a game for her hardware.
      - talmand 13y ago
toyg 13y ago
> a bunch of geeks playing with toy swords dressed in cloaks Meta: this place is really going to the dogs. I thought we were over making fun of "those nerdy geeks with their elves, they don't even buy A&F and smell bad".
- ownagefool 13y ago
  I wasn't making fun of them, just trying to paint the picture that we're different kind of geeks. I'm a PC gamer and have no interesting in LARPing of whatever the technical definition of that game is. That doesn't mean theres anything wrong with that, just suggesting it doesn't intrinsically fit the mold of what valve is about.
  - srdev 13y ago
    And I would argue that rigidly deciding that Valve is just going to be about what PC gamers think is cool and refusing to seriously consider other ideas is not good culture. Its close-minded. Adopting a hardware project and then hamstringing efforts to bring it to fruition because of a lack of creativity and unwillingness to compromise is toxic.
    - ownagefool 13y ago
      Just to be clear srdev, I'm not rigidly defining valve. My original point was rather than assuming people weren't interested based on bonuses, it might just be that a bunch of gamers aren't really interested in tech that hasn't been shown to have any interesting game play metrics. That'd mean that while it doesn't work to her interests, valve would actually be working as intended, where people work on projects they feel interested and useful in, which is good for everyone who doesn't have a burning desire to make other folks work on their niche project.
      - srdev 13y ago
        That makes more sense than my initial understanding of what you were saying. I would still argue that Valve, as a company, should not have strung her project along if they were not really interested in committing to AR. The problem I see here is that they brought on people to do hardware projects, and then resisted making any compromises that might be required to see the project to completion. Its easy to understand why said employees would be bitter in such a case, and I would say that there should have been some more introspection on whether they were really committed to the project or not. The one-sided story we're getting indicates that the introspection never occurred and it was brushed off as the employee's problem when it really was Valve's. Edit: That being said, the resolution of the situation was impressive. I think that Gabe handing over the rights to the work she did was a class act, so I definitely don't want to make it seem like Valve is a bad place. Rather, my argument is that this is a potential downside, and it'd be warranted to keep the pitfalls involved with this kind of culture in-mind.

talmand 13y ago

I see this as two different complaints. I would agree that her project didn't sound too interesting but that doesn't necessarily discredit the complaints not directly relating to her project. Well, the fact her project didn't have big bonuses associated to it is indeed a formula for creating a problem since that's a financial incentive to not get involved. And it is rather difficult to make hardware if you don't hire people that make hardware.

ownagefool 13y ago
I dunno how big the bonuses are, but I honestly hope that people joining valve aren't doing it for the money. Sure extra money is always good, but I imagine you try to join valve for the love. Still, I'm going to conceed the point. However, cheeky counter. Valve spends over 5 years making sequels to half life. They're not a quick company and yet they fired her because she was abrasive after only one year of employment while workong on an R&D project. In other words, she comes across as extremely impatient. End of the day though, she can prove everyone wrong by her project going huge after the kickstarter. However, if I were in her shoes, I wouldn't be bitterly dissing my ex-employer, I'd be estatic that they'd handed me what I thought was a gold mine. :p
- talmand 13y ago
  I would imagine no one outside of Valve knows for sure but I've seen it mentioned in several places, including in one of her interviews, that the bonuses can be quite substantial. Personally, I see the length of time that Valve takes to make their games as a sign of problems. If she were fired for being impatient enough to actually wanting to do something NOW, then that further proves the point in my mind. I would hope that wasn't the issue because it seems silly to fire someone over the fact that they like to produce things in a timely manner. But, I suppose it's possible because it more or less fits the story we're hearing from her. I'm also guessing the reason some of their games take so long is because they have serious watershed moments where everybody wants a say in the game so they can get in on the bonuses. I don't see her as being bitter towards Valve, but towards the small group within Valve that she feels is behind her and her team being fired. Which is totally understandable. From what I read, granted her words, I'm assuming that Gabe handed over the project to her because she got a raw deal.
  - ownagefool 13y ago
    >Personally, I see the length of time that Valve takes to make their games as a sign of problems. Valve make money and they make some of the best PC games about. Even if they're not your thing, it's hard to call love and polish a problem in a world where most of the moved loved series have been slated with their recent releases. >I would hope that wasn't the issue because it seems silly to fire someone over the fact that they like to produce things in a timely manner. But, I suppose it's possible because it more or less fits the story we're hearing from her. >Which is totally understandable. From what I read, granted her words, I'm assuming that Gabe handed over the project to her because she got a raw deal. My guess was more along the lines of Gabe not thinking she had anything because she mentioned they were some serious major hints that her project didn't have interesting gameplay metrics. I have to admit, like I did in my first post on this subject that I'm bias because I don't believe in the idea, but I find it strange that most people are behind her despite the fact it doesn't sound like she's got a game for her hardware.
    - talmand 13y ago

toyg 13y ago

> a bunch of geeks playing with toy swords dressed in cloaks Meta: this place is really going to the dogs. I thought we were over making fun of "those nerdy geeks with their elves, they don't even buy A&F and smell bad".

ownagefool 13y ago
I wasn't making fun of them, just trying to paint the picture that we're different kind of geeks. I'm a PC gamer and have no interesting in LARPing of whatever the technical definition of that game is. That doesn't mean theres anything wrong with that, just suggesting it doesn't intrinsically fit the mold of what valve is about.
- srdev 13y ago
  And I would argue that rigidly deciding that Valve is just going to be about what PC gamers think is cool and refusing to seriously consider other ideas is not good culture. Its close-minded. Adopting a hardware project and then hamstringing efforts to bring it to fruition because of a lack of creativity and unwillingness to compromise is toxic.
  - ownagefool 13y ago
    Just to be clear srdev, I'm not rigidly defining valve. My original point was rather than assuming people weren't interested based on bonuses, it might just be that a bunch of gamers aren't really interested in tech that hasn't been shown to have any interesting game play metrics. That'd mean that while it doesn't work to her interests, valve would actually be working as intended, where people work on projects they feel interested and useful in, which is good for everyone who doesn't have a burning desire to make other folks work on their niche project.
    - srdev 13y ago
      That makes more sense than my initial understanding of what you were saying. I would still argue that Valve, as a company, should not have strung her project along if they were not really interested in committing to AR. The problem I see here is that they brought on people to do hardware projects, and then resisted making any compromises that might be required to see the project to completion. Its easy to understand why said employees would be bitter in such a case, and I would say that there should have been some more introspection on whether they were really committed to the project or not. The one-sided story we're getting indicates that the introspection never occurred and it was brushed off as the employee's problem when it really was Valve's. Edit: That being said, the resolution of the situation was impressive. I think that Gabe handing over the rights to the work she did was a class act, so I definitely don't want to make it seem like Valve is a bad place. Rather, my argument is that this is a potential downside, and it'd be warranted to keep the pitfalls involved with this kind of culture in-mind.