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Also, just so everyone knows, it's pretty easy to negotiate down your bill. The reason healthcare is so expensive is so many people don't pay it. If you are wil

Also, just so everyone knows, it's pretty easy to negotiate down your bill. The reason healthcare is so expensive is so many people don't pay it. If you are willing to pay say 40% of your bill it's already 25% better than medicare. This. My Dad is a surgeon and the stories I hear are incredible. Once he operated on a child whose insurance was out of network. So the insurance company writes the parents a check to give to my father. Instead, the parents decide to cash it and never pay for the surgery. So, the parents literally make a few thousand bucks from having their child operated instead of paying that.

sanderjd 13y ago
This is the part I'm always curious about in these discussions: how do people get away with not paying? Is it a debt that is often discharged in bankruptcy or is there some other mechanism by which the debt is erased?
- tracker1 13y ago
  Well, you can hire a collection agency (who usually gets X% of the collected amount with an $X as a minimum acceptable ammount, usually around 50%). You, or an agency on your behalf can then have the unpaid amount due as a collection account appear on their credit report, and after that (7 years of no activity) it is supposed to come off. Some unscrupulous collection companies will modify the last account change date to keep it on, but that can be challenged. You can also take the person to court and have a declaratory judgement, which will stick around on said credit report until paid. There are also specific laws regarding where the involved parties are as local state laws apply too. It gets a little complicated. I have two bills on my credit report with agencies that refused to negotiate... and I had an auto loan that was charged off (they repossessed my truck after they broke the payment arrangements that were made when I lost my job, and I refused to pay), after 8 years the collection company had changed the dates several times, I pointed out to the credit reporting agencies that the amount was the charged off amount for over 8 years, and had it successfully removed. YMMV.
- badclient 13y ago
  It is a combination. First, healthcare debt isn't weighted as heavily on credit reports. Second, healthcare is one of the few businesses where it is illegal to deny services before payment. You can't walk into a walmart, grab a candy bar and just walk out. With emergency healthcare, you can do just that and sadly, too many people take advantage of it.
  - refurb 13y ago
    To give you an idea of how big of a problem not paying is, I'll relate a story I heard from a small business owner in California: In an effort to provide his blue collar workers with a decent benefits package, he setup a health insurance plan. After 6 months or so, his HR person came back and said "none of the employees have used the insurance at all!" This was weird since these workers had families and obviously children get sick on a regular basis. He spoke to his employees and asked why they weren't using their insurance. The answer? Instead of having to pay a $20 co-pay to see a doctor, they could just go to the hospital and say they were uninsured. If they did that, they didn't pay a dime for their healthcare.
    - lawnchair_larry 13y ago
      This isn't true. They only have to provide emergency services, and they still charge for them, just not up front. If anyone did that, they would still receive bills in the mail and have derogatory information on their credit report. Otherwise, please tell me which hospital is giving away free service to the uninsured.
      - refurb 13y ago
        Exactly, these employees would take their children to the emergency room/urgent care. They weren't getting check-ups, but if the kid had a high fever, they would bring them in, get them seen by a doctor, then be on their way. When asked about billing they simply said "I don't have insurance". Many hospitals, including the DSH (disproportionate share hospitals) write these things off all the time. The hospital just doesn't bother following up. Are you going to spend $200 to chase down a $100 hospital bill?
- njharman 13y ago
  Debt is not a crime in the U.S.A. Just don't pay it. Eventually collectors write it off as tax loss.

sanderjd 13y ago

This is the part I'm always curious about in these discussions: how do people get away with not paying? Is it a debt that is often discharged in bankruptcy or is there some other mechanism by which the debt is erased?

tracker1 13y ago
Well, you can hire a collection agency (who usually gets X% of the collected amount with an $X as a minimum acceptable ammount, usually around 50%). You, or an agency on your behalf can then have the unpaid amount due as a collection account appear on their credit report, and after that (7 years of no activity) it is supposed to come off. Some unscrupulous collection companies will modify the last account change date to keep it on, but that can be challenged. You can also take the person to court and have a declaratory judgement, which will stick around on said credit report until paid. There are also specific laws regarding where the involved parties are as local state laws apply too. It gets a little complicated. I have two bills on my credit report with agencies that refused to negotiate... and I had an auto loan that was charged off (they repossessed my truck after they broke the payment arrangements that were made when I lost my job, and I refused to pay), after 8 years the collection company had changed the dates several times, I pointed out to the credit reporting agencies that the amount was the charged off amount for over 8 years, and had it successfully removed. YMMV.
badclient 13y ago
It is a combination. First, healthcare debt isn't weighted as heavily on credit reports. Second, healthcare is one of the few businesses where it is illegal to deny services before payment. You can't walk into a walmart, grab a candy bar and just walk out. With emergency healthcare, you can do just that and sadly, too many people take advantage of it.
- refurb 13y ago
  To give you an idea of how big of a problem not paying is, I'll relate a story I heard from a small business owner in California: In an effort to provide his blue collar workers with a decent benefits package, he setup a health insurance plan. After 6 months or so, his HR person came back and said "none of the employees have used the insurance at all!" This was weird since these workers had families and obviously children get sick on a regular basis. He spoke to his employees and asked why they weren't using their insurance. The answer? Instead of having to pay a $20 co-pay to see a doctor, they could just go to the hospital and say they were uninsured. If they did that, they didn't pay a dime for their healthcare.
  - lawnchair_larry 13y ago
    This isn't true. They only have to provide emergency services, and they still charge for them, just not up front. If anyone did that, they would still receive bills in the mail and have derogatory information on their credit report. Otherwise, please tell me which hospital is giving away free service to the uninsured.
    - refurb 13y ago
      Exactly, these employees would take their children to the emergency room/urgent care. They weren't getting check-ups, but if the kid had a high fever, they would bring them in, get them seen by a doctor, then be on their way. When asked about billing they simply said "I don't have insurance". Many hospitals, including the DSH (disproportionate share hospitals) write these things off all the time. The hospital just doesn't bother following up. Are you going to spend $200 to chase down a $100 hospital bill?
njharman 13y ago
Debt is not a crime in the U.S.A. Just don't pay it. Eventually collectors write it off as tax loss.