4 ms·

Per-pass performance gets worse. Overall performance gets better, because fewer passes need to be made.

weland 13y ago
> Per-pass performance gets worse. Overall performance gets better, because fewer passes need to be made. Yes, but what the users will see is that, instead of his application occasionally "feeling funny" every five minutes or so, the application will visibly lock every ten minutes. It's a hard lesson that Java learned a long time ago: it's ok to be reasonably fast all that time, but people will immediately begin yelling if you're fast most of the time, but suddenly you get really sluggish, even if just for a few seconds.
- rsynnott 13y ago
  Which is to a large extent why Java GUIs were essentially a failure, but it still has a large niche in high-performance server apps; you can usually get away with >100ms pauses there.
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    Actually I think it was more related to: - sloppy programming, the same kind we see nowadays in JavaScript - doing everything in the main thread - not caring to learn how to use Swing properly - not even taking the time to switch to the native look and feel - not caring about users and providing a rich UI experience
    - mhd 13y ago
      Well, it was an enterprise language, and quite often most of the flaws you'd get in Java GUIs were there in the previous, native versions, too. Just like they're still there in the intranet web apps that replaced a few of the Java clients. (I know a few people who still prefer the old-fashioned mainframe terminal apps, if available. If all you have is a few colors and line-drawing characters, even programmers have a hard time messing up simple forms. Not saying that we/they don't often succeed despite this difficulty...)
    - weland 13y ago
      Nah, the lesson I was thinking about was taught earlier, in the days of AWT. Back then, Java was fairly slow, and the garbage collector was not as sophisticated as today. When the GC started collecting, you knew.
      - pjmlp 13y ago
        Ah, but on those days all implementations were still plain old interpreters.
      - rsynnott 13y ago
        With modern Java GUI apps, you still do, as any Netbeans user could attest.

> Per-pass performance gets worse. Overall performance gets better, because fewer passes need to be made. Yes, but what the users will see is that, instead of his application occasionally "feeling funny" every five minutes or so, the application will visibly lock every ten minutes. It's a hard lesson that Java learned a long time ago: it's ok to be reasonably fast all that time, but people will immediately begin yelling if you're fast most of the time, but suddenly you get really sluggish, even if just for a few seconds.

rsynnott 13y ago
Which is to a large extent why Java GUIs were essentially a failure, but it still has a large niche in high-performance server apps; you can usually get away with >100ms pauses there.
- pjmlp 13y ago
  Actually I think it was more related to: - sloppy programming, the same kind we see nowadays in JavaScript - doing everything in the main thread - not caring to learn how to use Swing properly - not even taking the time to switch to the native look and feel - not caring about users and providing a rich UI experience
  - mhd 13y ago
    Well, it was an enterprise language, and quite often most of the flaws you'd get in Java GUIs were there in the previous, native versions, too. Just like they're still there in the intranet web apps that replaced a few of the Java clients. (I know a few people who still prefer the old-fashioned mainframe terminal apps, if available. If all you have is a few colors and line-drawing characters, even programmers have a hard time messing up simple forms. Not saying that we/they don't often succeed despite this difficulty...)
  - weland 13y ago
    Nah, the lesson I was thinking about was taught earlier, in the days of AWT. Back then, Java was fairly slow, and the garbage collector was not as sophisticated as today. When the GC started collecting, you knew.
    - pjmlp 13y ago
      Ah, but on those days all implementations were still plain old interpreters.
    - rsynnott 13y ago
      With modern Java GUI apps, you still do, as any Netbeans user could attest.