5 ms·

Apache rules? They'd stay human-readable. I look forward to servers having different text representation of the same binary headers in their config files. tel

by romaniv 13y ago

Apache rules? They'd stay human-readable. I look forward to servers having different text representation of the same binary headers in their config files. tell me one thing, one single thing, that only humans are able to do with HTTP using their eyes You're missing the point. No one writes HTML manually anymore either. People generate it using tools (string processing tools in a language or templates) and read it using browsers. Heck, even Notepad++ is a tool, but a generic one. If you want, you can generate all your HTML using DOM. But almost no one does that, because DOM tools are clumsy, while text-based tools are easy to use.

peterwwillis 13y ago
You're actually still arguing for my point instead of against it. If no one writes HTML manually anymore, then we have no need for it to look like English when the computer interprets it! We can compile the HTML down to bytecode and have it be interpreted much quicker by the computer, which won't have to do the job of lexing, compiling, assembling, etc. Here, two steps would be eliminated immediately, resulting in increased speed and more efficient storage and transmission: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/internals/howbrowserswork/#Main_flow_examples http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/internals/howbrowsers... For that matter, if it's generated by tools, and we use programs designed to interpret and decipher and color-code it, all of that can happen without it being in English! On top of that, you missed when I said HTTP is a communications protocol. Ever seen the movie The Matrix? Know how the sentinels would sometimes look at each other and make scuttling noises, then shovel off somewhere? They weren't speaking English ASCII. They were speaking a binary communications protocol. Know how I know? BECAUSE MACHINES AREN'T HUMANS! It would be absolutely moronic for them to speak English to each other. It would be like dogs saying the English word "bark" instead of just barking. Completely unnecessary and crazy. But that's what an ASCII communications protocol for machines is. On top of that, there is no benefit, not one at all, to humans being able to read it when tools already exist to interpret and display it even more human-readable than its natural state. We squish and compress and strip HTML and JS already just to make it more efficient, and then undo the whole process just to read it. It's insane.
- bitwize 13y ago
  For that matter, if it's generated by tools, and we use programs designed to interpret and decipher and color-code it, all of that can happen without it being in English! Yes, let's base HTML 6 on Word .doc. Also, the machines in The Matrix were hostile to humans. We'd like machines in the real world to be... not so.
- ricardobeat 13y ago
  So you really think we'd be here today if instead of HTML, CSS , Javascript, JSON, XML we had a web based on bytecode formats? The web is made by people, not computers. Open an ubiquitous text-editor and you can start working on something right away. If you have to download a dozen different compilers and IDEs to do that, it's definitely not the same.
  - peterwwillis 13y ago
    "The web" is actually just a collection of hyperlinks, applications that parse markup and document storage and retrieval services. You don't see code. You see pictures of cats. And you never, ever need a text editor to use it. Face it. Your love affair with ASCII is just that: an emotion. (As to your original question: humans haven't needed to program in binary or assembly for decades. That's what so great about computers: they do the hard work for us, so we don't need to type everything manually into a text editor. Is that such a hard pill to swallow?)
    - ricardobeat 13y ago
      You're completely ignoring the fact that the web began as (and still is, in part) a collaborative tool and publishing platform. Text-based formats played an immense part in that, geocities, the rise of personal publishing, blogs, these would not have happened without them. Yes, binary is more efficient, but then tell me why is JSON the most popular data interchange format on the web today?
      - peterwwillis 13y ago
angersock 13y ago
"No one writes HTML manually anymore either." I was up until four last night doing just this. It's commonly done for templating purposes all the time, or quick hacks and placeholders. Have you lost your mind?

by romaniv 13y ago

peterwwillis 13y ago

You're actually still arguing for my point instead of against it. If no one writes HTML manually anymore, then we have no need for it to look like English when the computer interprets it! We can compile the HTML down to bytecode and have it be interpreted much quicker by the computer, which won't have to do the job of lexing, compiling, assembling, etc. Here, two steps would be eliminated immediately, resulting in increased speed and more efficient storage and transmission: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/internals/howbrowserswork/#Main_flow_examples http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/internals/howbrowsers... For that matter, if it's generated by tools, and we use programs designed to interpret and decipher and color-code it, all of that can happen without it being in English! On top of that, you missed when I said HTTP is a communications protocol. Ever seen the movie The Matrix? Know how the sentinels would sometimes look at each other and make scuttling noises, then shovel off somewhere? They weren't speaking English ASCII. They were speaking a binary communications protocol. Know how I know? BECAUSE MACHINES AREN'T HUMANS! It would be absolutely moronic for them to speak English to each other. It would be like dogs saying the English word "bark" instead of just barking. Completely unnecessary and crazy. But that's what an ASCII communications protocol for machines is. On top of that, there is no benefit, not one at all, to humans being able to read it when tools already exist to interpret and display it even more human-readable than its natural state. We squish and compress and strip HTML and JS already just to make it more efficient, and then undo the whole process just to read it. It's insane.

bitwize 13y ago
For that matter, if it's generated by tools, and we use programs designed to interpret and decipher and color-code it, all of that can happen without it being in English! Yes, let's base HTML 6 on Word .doc. Also, the machines in The Matrix were hostile to humans. We'd like machines in the real world to be... not so.
ricardobeat 13y ago
So you really think we'd be here today if instead of HTML, CSS , Javascript, JSON, XML we had a web based on bytecode formats? The web is made by people, not computers. Open an ubiquitous text-editor and you can start working on something right away. If you have to download a dozen different compilers and IDEs to do that, it's definitely not the same.
- peterwwillis 13y ago
  "The web" is actually just a collection of hyperlinks, applications that parse markup and document storage and retrieval services. You don't see code. You see pictures of cats. And you never, ever need a text editor to use it. Face it. Your love affair with ASCII is just that: an emotion. (As to your original question: humans haven't needed to program in binary or assembly for decades. That's what so great about computers: they do the hard work for us, so we don't need to type everything manually into a text editor. Is that such a hard pill to swallow?)
  - ricardobeat 13y ago
    You're completely ignoring the fact that the web began as (and still is, in part) a collaborative tool and publishing platform. Text-based formats played an immense part in that, geocities, the rise of personal publishing, blogs, these would not have happened without them. Yes, binary is more efficient, but then tell me why is JSON the most popular data interchange format on the web today?
    - peterwwillis 13y ago

angersock 13y ago

"No one writes HTML manually anymore either." I was up until four last night doing just this. It's commonly done for templating purposes all the time, or quick hacks and placeholders. Have you lost your mind?