4 ms·

Did you even read Ellsberg's article? Further, are you aware of the conditions Manning was held under? (Forced to sleep naked, not allowed to exercise, in solit

by kbd 13y ago

Did you even read Ellsberg's article? Further, are you aware of the conditions Manning was held under? (Forced to sleep naked, not allowed to exercise, in solitary for such extended periods that human rights organizations declared it torture, etc.) Manning was held for years without trial.

tptacek 13y ago
Manning was arrested in May 2010 and his first preferral (the UCMJ equivalent of indictment) was issued in July 2010.
- kbd 13y ago
  From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning): > Manning was held from July 2010 in the Marine Corps Brig, Quantico, Virginia, under Prevention of Injury status, which entailed de facto solitary confinement and other restrictions that caused international concern. In April 2011 he was transferred to Fort Leavenworth, where he could interact with other detainees.[3] He pleaded guilty in February 2013 to 10 of the 22 charges, which could carry a sentence of up to 20 years.[4] The trial on the remaining charges, including aiding the enemy, began on June 3, 2013.[5] So, from indictment to trial was about 3 years, no?
  - tptacek 13y ago
    The Wikipedia article on Barker v. Wingo is pretty good and includes some tests for what is and isn't a violation of the right to speedy trial. This is a decent Slate article on the topic: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2010/11/can_a_speedy_trial_really_take_five_years.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20... Complicating things in Manning's case: * The trial took place under UCMJ rules, which are different from civilian rules * Manning's supposed mental health issues delayed his arraignment while it was determined whether he was fit to stand trial. We also don't know (do we? sources welcome) whether Manning's defense wanted to hasten the trial. Trial delays often work to the advantage of defendants. What I think we do at this point know is that Manning's treatment from July 2010 through April 2011, as a maximum security POI inmate at Quantico, was inhumane. It's worth mentioning that similar inhumanity is inflicted on civilian criminal inmates; it doesn't make the practice any more morally acceptable, but suggests that Manning's experience wasn't (unfortunately) unprecedented. Regardless, my original comment meant only to speak to the issue of whether Manning was "held without trial". I don't think he was.
    - mpyne 13y ago
      Additionally it takes much longer to prepare a case (or defense) when dealing with so much classified information. You can't even as much as use a normal printer anymore. All of the hardware, software, networks, people, etc. have to be specially screened and cleared to handle classified information.

by kbd 13y ago

tptacek 13y ago

Manning was arrested in May 2010 and his first preferral (the UCMJ equivalent of indictment) was issued in July 2010.

kbd 13y ago
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning): > Manning was held from July 2010 in the Marine Corps Brig, Quantico, Virginia, under Prevention of Injury status, which entailed de facto solitary confinement and other restrictions that caused international concern. In April 2011 he was transferred to Fort Leavenworth, where he could interact with other detainees.[3] He pleaded guilty in February 2013 to 10 of the 22 charges, which could carry a sentence of up to 20 years.[4] The trial on the remaining charges, including aiding the enemy, began on June 3, 2013.[5] So, from indictment to trial was about 3 years, no?
- tptacek 13y ago
  The Wikipedia article on Barker v. Wingo is pretty good and includes some tests for what is and isn't a violation of the right to speedy trial. This is a decent Slate article on the topic: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2010/11/can_a_speedy_trial_really_take_five_years.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20... Complicating things in Manning's case: * The trial took place under UCMJ rules, which are different from civilian rules * Manning's supposed mental health issues delayed his arraignment while it was determined whether he was fit to stand trial. We also don't know (do we? sources welcome) whether Manning's defense wanted to hasten the trial. Trial delays often work to the advantage of defendants. What I think we do at this point know is that Manning's treatment from July 2010 through April 2011, as a maximum security POI inmate at Quantico, was inhumane. It's worth mentioning that similar inhumanity is inflicted on civilian criminal inmates; it doesn't make the practice any more morally acceptable, but suggests that Manning's experience wasn't (unfortunately) unprecedented. Regardless, my original comment meant only to speak to the issue of whether Manning was "held without trial". I don't think he was.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    Additionally it takes much longer to prepare a case (or defense) when dealing with so much classified information. You can't even as much as use a normal printer anymore. All of the hardware, software, networks, people, etc. have to be specially screened and cleared to handle classified information.