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NSA leaker Edward Snowden 'accepts asylum in Venezuela'?
- ortusdux 13y agoTweeted by the Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the State Duma: https://twitter.com/Alexey_Pushkov https://twitter.com/Alexey_Pushkov
- stephengillie 13y agoGoogle Translate gives me: "According to News 24, with reference to Maduro, Snowden accepted his offer of asylum. If so, it is found that the safest option" So who is News 24?
- vinkelhake 13y agoSeems that the information came from a news program on a Russian state TV channel.
- flatfilefan 13y agoIt's "Vesti.ru", http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1102569 http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1102569
- voidlogic 13y agoSo now he has to get there...? Maybe they could have a frigate on a "far northing training excerise". He could then fly by helicoper to the ship. Interdicting a home bound passenger jet is one thing (esp. as they need fuel). Interdicting frigate in international waters is a another ball game. But yeah, I'm probably far into the realm a fantasy here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ARV_General_Sal%C3%B3m_%28F-25%29_y_ARV_Mariscal_Sucre_%28F-21%29_-_1987-09855.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ARV_General_Sal%C3%B3m_%2...
- danbruc 13y agoSomeone with some spare money should charter a private jet for him and then fly some extra hops to stay far away from countries that could cause trouble.
- weinzierl 13y ago"Moscow - Barents Sea - Windward Islands - Caracas" interesting article in Spiegel Online today. They have a map of the potential route and other suggestions. For example: He could travel as diplomatic baggage. Sounds crazy, but there are at least two cases where this has been tried. Both cases were unsuccessful but if they were we probably wouldn't know about them. Original (in German): http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/asylgesuch-von-snowden-in-venezuela-moegliche-reiseroute-a-910213.html http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/asylgesuch-von-snowden... Translate: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2Fasylgesuch-von-snowden-in-venezuela-moegliche-reiseroute-a-910213.html http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&pre...
- rz2k 13y agoIn December 2002, a North Korean ship was boarded by Spanish special forces in coordination with the US off the Horn of Africa.[1] They believed it was carrying missiles or other arms. It was a shipment of Scud missiles on its way to Yemen, and they eventually let them pass.[2] It is well within the capability of the US Navy to blockade or stop a Venezuelan warship, and it would probably be a bad strategy to show even token resistance when days away from anyone else being able to see what is happening. The narrative could be something along the lines of —they were given an easy way to give him up, but they were crazy and shot at us first! I have no idea what warning shots are like from missile frigates and whether they are easy to interpret. It might be easier to hope that a 11 or 12 hour flight avoiding unwelcoming airspaces would simply go mostly unnoticed. Foreign Policy also played with the idea a few days ago.[3] My guess is that as long as he remains safe for a few years, popular opinion will eventually shift to his favor and he'll be pardoned, and eventually treated more like Ellsberg than Vanunu. However, since it is in the long term interests of Venezuela to repair relations with the US, it will require luck for Snowden to become popular enough in the US for a pardon before Venezuela decides that it has 'thought deeper' about what he did, and wants to make a friendly gesture toward its American partners. [1] http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/12/11/us.missile.ship/ http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/12/11/us.mis... [2] http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/12/11/us.missile.ship/ http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/12/11/us.mis... [3] http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/06/moscow_to_caracas_the_scenic_route http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/06/moscow_to_car...
- salimmadjd 13y agoOT: But I'm curious why the article has to define the countries who offered asylum as leftist: > "...the leftist governments of Venezuela, Bolivia and Nicaragua...." This implies the asylum was extended because they are leftist as appose to other reasons, such as these countries felt rebuffed by US for forcing down the flight of the Bolivian president, or purely on humanitarian or other reasons.
- bobwaycott 13y agoBy OT, do you mean on or off? I read your question as very much on topic, because the fact that they are leftist governments is going to be played out through the media to disparage and discredit Snowden through guilt by association tactics that focus entirely on the nature of the government(s) offering asylum. We've already seen this happening in the US media in response to the list of countries to whom Snowden has submitted asylum applications.
- sspiff 13y agoGuilty of being leftist? Is this a crime in the US? Does being known as a "leftist" cause you to be shunned or looked down upon? Does leftist mean the same as in Europe? (We generally call them socialists, but socialism is not a dirty word or concept in Europe, where as is associated with oppressive communist regimes of the cold war in the US.)
- AlisdairSH 13y agoYes. Leftist, socialist, and most of the related terms have been co-opted by the political right and now carry a negative connotation in the US.
- mpyne 13y agoI don't think it helped that leftist organizations in the U.S. such as Weather Underground turned violent. An offshoot of WUO later murdered people to rob a Brinks truck to try to fund further violence. Using violence to make your point has been a good way to get that point tainted in the minds of most of the U.S., especially after the Atlanta Olympic bombings, 9/11, etc. Liberal and socialist have also started to take on a negative connotation, but not as bad as 'leftist'. And of course it bears keeping in mind that many of those who oppose NSA surveilliance on principled grounds also oppose any type of leftist/socialist government by the same principles.
- rafaelm 13y agoI'm just gonna post a previous comment I made on another story regarding this: ---------------------- I wonder why in the Venezuelan government's eyes it's OK for them to constantly monitor and record every call, email,etc made by their political opponents. I wonder what would happen to an officer of the SEBIN (venezuelan inteligence agency)if they came out with details about how they record every political opponent movement. I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up being just another statistic in the homicide rates. They even had a late night TV show (La Hojilla) where a guy would play back cell phone recordings and emails of the opposition politicians.Live. On TV. He had carte blanche to insult,record anyone he wanted live on TV. Chavez would often call in to the show to congratulate him. They even had a Congress session where they played recordings of the cell phone calls of the most prominent opposition members and their family. And that was live on TV again! Hipocrysy at it's best. --------- These governments are not "fighting for freedom" or for the privacy rights of the people of the world. Many of these governments would sell their mothers to have a PRISM-like system. Venezuela included. EDIT: when I talk about hipocrisy, I'm talking about the venezuelan govt, not Snowden.
- nodata 13y agoI think that's irrelevant. Snowden was interested in revealing that democracies that purport to have a certain set of values actually have a different set of values, and a set of secret non-accountable courts and agencies which can do whatever they like. He's done that now, and now he needs refuge. Yes it would be nice if he had asylum in a country which was more aligned with his beliefs, but guess what - none of those countries turned out to exist, since none of them offered asylum. So what's he meant to do so that he doesn't appear hypocritical?
- pekk 13y agoSo remember: as long as you don't try to have a certain set of values, these things aren't actually bad. Nixon's mistake wasn't partisan spying, it was only not to say that partisan spying is OK.
- rafaelm 13y agoActually, I'm not referring to Snowden as hypocritical. I'm talking about the Venezuelan government. They keep talking about how the US government violates everyone's rights , when they do the same in Venezuela. I do not judge Snowden at all, he did the right thing and now he needs to find a safe refuge.
- scrumper 13y agoIs it absolutely certain he's even in Russia? Couldn't he have left Hong Kong on a freighter bound for South America weeks ago? It would explain why nobody has seen him since he disappeared in HK.
- lucb1e 13y agoThis starts to sound a bit like John McAfee's story. Better make sure any journalists don't forget to remove geotags from photos!
- josteink 13y agoAs a European, I'm utterly and totally ashamed that nobody here actually offered him asylum. None. This lack of action speaks so very clearly that whatever nasty the US is doing now, entire Europe is in on it already. Sans the actual European people under total surveillance ofcourse. It seriously makes you wonder what's going on behind closed doors in European governments and EU offices. It can't be good, and it needs to be rooted out pronto.
- smutticus 13y agoAs a fellow EU citizen I completely agree, but am not particularly surprised. And don't feel that ashamed because as citizens we're only tangentially responsible for the crimes of our governments.
- jacquesm 13y agoAs citizens we are 100% responsible for the crimes of our governments.
- moheeb 13y agoI had nothing to do with JFK's assassination.
- BjoernKW 13y agoSorry but this simply ain't true. Some European government bodies aren't even elected democratically and even as for those which are you can hardly blame the people for the crimes committed by their governments because most of those are committed behind closed doors. Yes, the majority of the electorate might be gullible or even downright stupid but they're not responsible for the crimes committed in the name of people. Unfortunately, those who really are responsible won't be tried in court because the rule of law doesn't apply to them.
- kimlelly 13y agoIt's the Principal-Agent problem: The citizen is the Principal who mandates the Agent (the government) to do something for him. Now, if the Agent fucks up (and I'm sure we all agree that this has been the case worldwide for a very long time now), it becomes the responsibility of the Principal to replace the Agent with the right one. And this applies not just to single politicians but to entire political structures.
- colkassad 13y agoIf the Venezuelan government really wanted to be nasty, they could arrange for Snowden to be assassinated in a manner that implicates the US government.
- mladenkovacevic 13y agonow you're thinking like the CIA ;)
- bilbo0s 13y agoNo way. Much better for the GoV to keep Snowden alive and "WikiLeak"-ing. I think the damage these leaks do to the US is generally underestimated. Not just in terms of security, but also politically and economically. It's VERY likely that a great deal of damage will be done economically over the long term. Frankly, I wouldn't even be surprised to see a lot of these Latin American nations begin capitalize on that economic damage over the long term. This whole NSA Affair will prove to be bad business all the way around.
- wwhitman 13y agoThat is a lovely theory except for the fact that virtually every government is doing the same.
- _delirium 13y agoThat's quite a bait-and-switch of a news article. The headline claims something, and then the article body says that, actually, they have no idea if their headline is correct or not, and their only sources were a deleted tweet and another tweet making vague reference to an apparently nonexistent newspaper article.
- simonster 13y agoWell, the deleted tweet was from someone who ought to know, it claimed to reference a report on a Russian 24 hour news channel, not in an article, but it's still suspicious that this isn't on their website. OTOH, Snowden accepting asylum in Venezuela, wouldn't be particularly surprising, since that's where he was originally headed.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- skwirl 13y agoAt this point, Snowden is a pawn in an international strategy game. None of these countries are offering Snowden asylum because they believe in his cause. They are offering him asylum because it is something that they can use against the United States (for unrelated contentions) and use as a political trophy within their own countries. As such, Snowden has to worry about many scenarios. Will his "host" country use him to extract concessions out of the United States in exchange for his extradition? When the regime changes in the country he ends up in, will he wear out his welcome? Can the country he ends up in even protect him from extraordinary rendition? Even if the country fully intends on assisting Snowden, would it be able to weather whatever sanctions were levied on it by the United States in the form of trade restrictions? Ecuador didn't seem to think so. Then there is the question of whether he can even get to the country he is going to. France and Spain (indirectly) forced down the jet of the president of Bolivia on the rumor that Snowden was on the plane. There is no reason to expect that they and other European countries won't do so again. Routes from Russia to Cuba (assuming he has to use Havana as a stop) also typically fly over the United States. The United States is free to, if not directly force the plane down in the United States, not grant it permission to fly in U.S. airspace, effectively forcing it to land in a U.S. friendly country (Canada). And Cuba might simply hand him over to improve U.S. relations. My understanding is that small private jets simply do not have the range to go directly from Moscow to any of the countries listed (perhaps Venezuela would be just within reach). At this point, though, I don't really see what option Snowden has but to take Venezuela's asylum offer and hope for the best. He is on a small boat on the ocean in a raging storm. His fate is not in his own hands.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- doctorpangloss 13y agoWell, as an IT guy at the world's largest surveillance agency Snowden is also an intelligence asset. Put another way, our failure of due process has led to a severe security breach. What made him flee was not convictions—he fled because Bradley Manning is in solitary. Daniel Ellsberg, the Pentagon Papers leaker, argued well that Snowden made the right call to flee.[0] Forcing down his plane, or any number of molestations, would only exacerbate this baffling strategy of abusing people to the extreme. If the government didn't do that bullshit, like Ellsberg said, he'd come home and have his day in court. [0] http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-leaker-snowden-made-the-right-call/2013/07/07/0b46d96c-e5b7-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-l...
- ExpiredLink 13y agoSnowden's future is clear. He will be forgotten like ... Bradley Manning. The latter is currently on trial. Nobody cares any more.
- swah 13y agoPardon me if I'm being ignorant, but what was the american people response to the whole "government is spying on us" thing? I thought there would be huge protests and pressure for a response from the president, and promise to cut back on... spying on people.