11 ms·

Firefox OS devices officially released

327 points by mokkol 13y ago

indeyets 13y ago
I wonder why ZTE chose to sell this device thru operators. Just push them to retailers or sell online with worldwide delivery!
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- mogrim 13y ago
  Presumably lowers the risk: try the devices out on a smaller market, iron out the inevitable bugs, and then release worldwide? Lower costs, too: Telefónica will be paying for most of the marketing, the sales channels, they might also be providing engineering help...
shacharz 13y ago
Do they support WebRTC?
- diggan 13y ago
  Well, not right now but they are working on it. You can follow the progress here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750011 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750011
- ndesaulniers 13y ago
  The principal architect showed me a build running on geeksphone. [1] Still bugs but it pretty much works. We'll probably make an announcement about it. [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Media/WebRTC/Peak https://wiki.mozilla.org/Media/WebRTC/Peak
mariusmg 13y ago
I'm very curios to see how FirefoxOS compares to WP7 on low power devices. If the UI is as smooth as WP7 i'm looking forward to getting one.
mogrim 13y ago
And here it is in on sale: http://www.movistar.es/particulares/movil/moviles-tarjeta/ficha/zte-open-prepago http://www.movistar.es/particulares/movil/moviles-tarjeta/fi...
AndrewDucker 13y ago
I'll be very interested to see how well these take off in the countries they're launched in. I don't see them as much of a competitor in the UK/US/etc.- the people there that want a smartphone have one that's much more higher powered. But in countries where most people can't currently afford smartphones, this offers them the chance of having one. And if they can then start to cannibalise sales from beneath, they have a chance of being a real global competitor.
- fauigerzigerk 13y ago
  I don't believe people anywhere in the world will keep buying phones for $800. I believe this has been a fad and it's starting to fade.
  - Yoric 13y ago
    I wonder about that. I see around me a few people replacing their work computer with a cellphone. That cellphone is more useful for them, cheaper, easier to carry and, with respect to what they manage to use it for, more powerful. Of course, that's just a few samples, so I have no idea about general trends.
    - roc 13y ago
      Even still, at some point the pocket computer people have will be "good enough" that they no longer see the value in an expensive upgrade every couple years. If people are trying to replace their desktop, perhaps it will take a couple additional years for pocket computers to be "good enough" at those tasks. But that won't break the inevitable trend. That will just postpone it a bit.
  - seabrookmx 13y ago
    Why pay $800? I can buy a brand new unlocked Nexus 4 for $305 CDN. This is a top tier smartphone.
    - glogla 13y ago
frankblizzard 13y ago
make them available already for developers world wide! geeksphone is always sold out
- Yoric 13y ago
  Well, it's easier to make software available for developers world wide than to make hardware available for developers world wide. Anybody interested in porting FirefoxOS to every single Android device on Earth? :)
  - diggan 13y ago
    You can always do it yourself! https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox_OS/Building_and_installing_Firefox_OS https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox_OS/... https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox_OS/Porting https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox_OS/...
AndrewDucker 13y ago
I'm curious - does it automatically get the latest version of FF when it's released for desktop/Android? And does it support all of the functionality that comes with it? i.e. will it now have the asm.js optimisations and similar?
- diggan 13y ago
  It's not running Firefox per se, it's running a OS called Boot 2 Gecko[0] and will probably not be updated simultaneously as desktop/mobile Firefox. Yeah, it supports almost the same functionality with some additional things (like WebAPI[1], APIs for hardware access) [0] https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI
  - AndrewDucker 13y ago
    Yes, but Gecko is the engine of Firefox, so I was curious whether the version of Gecko (and of the JS engines) are kept in sync.
    - asadotzler 13y ago
      That depends on what you call "in sync". Firefox browsers and Firefox OS share the Gecko engine but the browsers are currently a few versions ahead of the OS because it takes longer to get all the ducks in a row for a new mobile phone release than a browser update.
- Yoric 13y ago
  I'm not sure about asm.js/OdinMonkey. I believe that FirefoxOS 1.0 does not have it, but that FirefoxOS 1.1 (which should be available as a free over-the-air update) has it. More generally, FirefoxOS does not automatically get the latest version of Gecko, because the process for mobile operating systems is more complex. The operating system must first pass certification by (if I recall) both the constructors and the operators. This operation is both long and costly, so it is probably impossible to follow the Firefox desktop/Android 6 week release cycle for the time being. However, if I had to guess, I would assume that FirefoxOS will receive about one big update every few months, with all the new features and optimizations of Gecko. I know, for instance, that some of the optimizations I have added recently to Gecko have missed the release train for the next version of FirefoxOS (I believe that's still 1.1) but should be part of the release after that.
jdmitch 13y ago
It seems to be the same hardware as the ZTE V790 but with half the memory : http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=5134&idPhone2=5320 http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=5134&idPhone2=...
pja 13y ago
Huge kudos to Mozilla for branching out and trying something different. I hope it works out for them: we could really do with an open competitor to the Google/Apple duopoly.
- PommeDeTerre 13y ago
  Firefox OS will need to successfully compete against BlackBerry OS, Windows Mobile, bada and the other quite obscure mobile OSes long before it'll have a chance to even begin competing against Android or iOS. Many of these alternative systems have actually shipped on numerous devices, and have actual users. And how exactly is it "different"? Firefox OS is really just a limited subset of what we already have available (and have had for years, in some cases) under these various existing systems. We can already quite successfully run HTML5/CSS/JavaScript-based apps on Android, iOS, and BlackBerry OS for instance. And this is ignoring Firefox OS's inflexibility when it comes to using languages other than JavaScript (sorry, Asm.js and Emscripten are hacks, at best), or writing native applications. It's hard to see how it'll compete on vague notions of "openness" that most consumers really could not care any less about, while failing to compete on things that consumers do care about, like functionality and experience. It can't even really compete on price, given the existence of Android.
  - glogla 13y ago
    If I understand it correctly, Firefox OS is different in how it is not bound to one particular corporation. Mozilla's objective here is "build mobile OS" and not "sell more devices" like Apple or "get info on people so we can sell advertising" like Google. This makes me wonder about privacy and Firefox OS. Does it require arbitrary account with credit card paired like iOS or Windows Phone? Does it require account to get most of the functionality like Android? Does it require you to agree that Google will get your location data for network location service to function like Android? Does it not allow you to use it without sending (paid) sms to Nokia with your location, like new Nokia phones? If it doesn't do any of those things, it is different.
    - pjmlp 13y ago
diggan 13y ago
This is my lucky day to be in Spain! Have been following the project from the B2G[0] days and will order a phone ASAP. If you are in Spain, you can order the phone from Telefonica[1] and if you are like me and want to talk with other Firefox OS nerds, there is a Google Plus community for that[2] Also, don't forget that if you want to develop for Firefox OS but don't yet have a device for it, you can run the superfast Firefox OS Simulator[3], super simple and currently the best emulator for a mobile OS. [0] https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G [1] http://www.movistar.es/particulares/movil/moviles-tarjeta/ficha/zte-open-prepago http://www.movistar.es/particulares/movil/moviles-tarjeta/fi... [2] https://plus.google.com/communities/100988731864612801878 https://plus.google.com/communities/100988731864612801878 [3] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Firefox_OS_Simulator https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Firefox_OS_Si...
- kimlelly 13y ago
  This is currently the most open mobile OS. Count me in!
  - drdaeman 13y ago
    Opennes's nice but is it single-person hackable or huge monolithic blob that nobody except the most skilled teams would dare to bite? My problem with Android is that I miserably failed to hack it alone (I wanted to mess with app permission system and make it work my way). The Behemoth seem to have quite a steep learning curve, so I quickly lost my way in its innards. However, I was able hack Maemo (except for proprietary parts) on N900 somehow. Stack was loosely coupled, everything's deb-packaged separately, many components are not in-home inventions but are well-known software (Debian base, X11, OpenSSL, DBus, etc.). Sad thing Maemo's practically dead.
    - Yoric 13y ago
      Well, we have newcomers all the time on both Gecko and Gaia, and they all manage to contribute efficiently. Here's a short overview of how to get started: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/introduction https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/introduction Not necessarily trivial, but just about everybody manages to get started in a few days at worst.
ippisl 13y ago
I fail to see the value of such devices to the consumer. With android devices available at $100 with 1gb, android 4, a large screen, and huge market of highly optimised apps, what can Firefox is offer, except from marketing by carriers which are usually hated by consumers? liliputing.com/2013/06/android-gets-cheaper-meet-the-100-quad-core-phone-59-dual-core-tablet.html
- netcan 13y ago
  I think you need to compare these to whatever low end android you are likely to find in a local retailer: galaxy mini, Xperia tipo, etc. My guess is that Mozilla see the low end as the most vulnerable angle. Apple aren't going low end. Android aren't excluding it, but <$100 phones are an afterthought. There is always demand at the lower end. Handset makers are happy to fill it. Android might be the best current option, but Google aren't focused on this segment specifically and I think most app developers are developing for high or midrange phones first. A lot of stuff doesn't work well on a cheap android. By focusing on less power and smaller screens, they will encourage developers to make simpler apps that run well on this hardware. It's still early to tell if they have an advantage over android in this market, but it makes sense in theory.
  - dan1234 13y ago
    Although it's not generally their style, I wouldn't rule Apple out of a grab for the budget sector. Rumours concerning a low end, plastic iPhone have been gaining momentum for some time now and they already practically give away the previous generation spec'd phones.
    - seabrookmx 13y ago
      Agreed. They used to do this with the plastic Macbooks (hence their popularity at Colleges/Universities). Also the iPad mini, though more expensive than some of its Android competitors, doesn't command the premium price usually associated with an Apple product.
rodolphoarruda 13y ago
I think we are "almost there" in terms of freedom of choice and usage of our mobile device. We are still dependent on the carrier - e.g. Telefonica - to have our phone running our OS of choice. Of course, we have unlocked phones, but that's another thing, another price too. I wish my experience with mobile phones were the same as with laptops: every two years or so I step into a shop and buy a low-end machine on sale, go home and install the latest Ubuntu LTS version. When I first read about Firefox OS I thought I would have the experience as described above. I would buy ANY phone, donwload the Firefox OS, install it and enjoy mobile life from a different perspective. As I said, I think we are "almost there". Maybe that's where Ubuntu Mobile is aiming to.
- sergiosgc 13y ago
  I used to do that with laptops. Then, I switched to the opposite end of the spectrum. I spend inordinate amounts of time in front of my laptop. If I'm going to outspend myself, it is on the laptop. The personal concession is that laptops must now last at least four years. Now, whenever I need a laptop, I buy the best Lenovo I can find (well, not the absolute best, I aim for best-ish; price curves on laptops are stupid at the very high-end). So far, it has worked better than the expendable machine style.
  - glogla 13y ago
    Now if only they put 14" fullHD IPS display into T430 so I can do that as well.
  - voltagex_ 13y ago
    I managed to limit my laptop's lifespan to ~1 year by ignoring this advice. I bought the X1 Carbon with 4GB of RAM, instead of waiting for the 8GB (with a significant processor bump too). Oh for a laptop trade-in program.
- Yoric 13y ago
  Would you be interested in contributing to port Firefox OS to new platforms? Firefox OS can use Android kernel and drivers, so the hard[est] part is done. Doesn't mean that it's necessarily easy, but if you want to run Firefox OS on your hardware of choice, it is at least theoretically possible.
nakedrobot2 13y ago
I think Firefox OS has potentially huge geek (read: early adopter) appeal, which Blackberry and Windows Mobile do not have - they are dead. Tizen, Jolla, and others are just obscure specks. I am rooting for Firefox OS to be a serious contender within a couple of years. I think it has a strong chance to be #3. Likewise I don't think it has any chance whatsoever of taking the #1 or #2 spots - those are going to stay as they are for many years to come.
- Apocryphon 13y ago
  That's what I suspect so, too- its open nature will be embraced by the hacker mentality, as well as the rising anti-proprietary movement in the wake of the PRISM scandal. The question is, how would it fare against other similar projects, such as Ubuntu Touch?
- shmerl 13y ago
  Jolla has a better appeal I think. Firstly it's a full pledged Linux, not limited to JavaScript applications only. Secondly one will be able to run Firefox OS applications on Jolla as well, since the browser there is using Gecko.
  - bad_user 13y ago
    Jolla also inherits all the problems associated with desktop Linux and it would also have most of the same problems that Android does (fragmentation, upgrade cycle, etc...). I like the Firefox OS concept because it has a better chance at being popular amongst non-technical folks and because, even if it had like 5% of the market share and no more, even so it would bring benefits to everybody, including developers, including end-users - because those Web APIs are also pushed by Mozilla for standardization.
    - shmerl 13y ago
      What are those problems inherited from desktop Linux? I don't like the concept of limited systems like Firefox OS (for me personally) since I prefer more flexible and feature rich systems, but I see nothing wrong with them in general, they can be useful in some cases. The discussion above was about the huge geek appeal, not about the general appeal. That's why I answered that Jolla has a better geek appeal. Although they work hard to address the general public needs as well, in order not to make their system targeted to the tech crowd only.
jb- 13y ago
So far, HN has directed me towards some considerable profits (see Bitcoin, TSLA). Where should I go this time? Telefonica Stock? Alcatel stock?
znowi 13y ago
I'm really excited about Firefox OS. It's a timely alternative to iPhone Garden and Android PRISM :)
shmerl 13y ago
While I'm excited for Mozilla and for creation of wider choice in the mobile space, Firefox OS targeted devices aren't that interesting to me. I'd rather wait for Jolla's handsets to arrive. Not only they'll run glibc Linux proper (Mer based Sailfish OS), they'll also have a Gecko based browser which will be able to run Firefox OS applications as well.
arantius 13y ago
This release prodded me to look into Firefox OS again. I have a Nexus S lying around unused, and that's one of the supported "tier two" devices. So I installed it. I really want to love it. I love Firefox, but Firefox OS is very much "not there" based on my experience. The browser is significantly worse than Firefox for Android. As far as I can tell, Sync is not available at all. Tapping the URL bar just/always puts your cursor where you tapped (does not select the text for easy replacement). Lots of smaller fit/polish things seemed much worse. And the device experience is really strange. There's the "marketplace" but also the .. I don't know what it's called, two swipes to the left of the app launcher screen. The experience is very poor compared to Android/iOS; using familiar "apps" is really the mobile site for that service, and doesn't work as well as the Android apps I'm used to. (I.E.: Rating a movive in IMDB takes one tap to load another page, one tap to open the select box, another to pick the value, then another to submit that form. Versus one tap on Android.) Lots of the "real apps" from the marketplace are also immediately greyed out if you lose data. Including simple games that totally should work offline. (Though I was recently surprised by how many games refused to run without an internet connection on my Android tablet recently, also.)
- Yoric 13y ago
  > And the device experience is really strange. There's the "marketplace" but also the .. I don't know what it's called, two swipes to the left of the app launcher screen. The experience is very poor compared to Android/iOS; using familiar "apps" is really the mobile site for that service, and doesn't work as well as the Android apps I'm used to. (I.E.: Rating a movive in IMDB takes one tap to load another page, one tap to open the select box, another to pick the value, then another to submit that form. Versus one tap on Android.) > > Lots of the "real apps" from the marketplace are also immediately greyed out if you lose data. Including simple games that totally should work offline. (Though I was recently surprised by how many games refused to run without an internet connection on my Android tablet recently, also.) You should complain with the app authors and get them to improve their mobile website and/or their manifest. This will be beneficial to everyone.

327 points by mokkol 13y ago

I wonder why ZTE chose to sell this device thru operators. Just push them to retailers or sell online with worldwide delivery!

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
mogrim 13y ago
Presumably lowers the risk: try the devices out on a smaller market, iron out the inevitable bugs, and then release worldwide? Lower costs, too: Telefónica will be paying for most of the marketing, the sales channels, they might also be providing engineering help...

shacharz 13y ago

Do they support WebRTC?

diggan 13y ago
Well, not right now but they are working on it. You can follow the progress here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750011 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750011
ndesaulniers 13y ago
The principal architect showed me a build running on geeksphone. [1] Still bugs but it pretty much works. We'll probably make an announcement about it. [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Media/WebRTC/Peak https://wiki.mozilla.org/Media/WebRTC/Peak

mariusmg 13y ago

I'm very curios to see how FirefoxOS compares to WP7 on low power devices. If the UI is as smooth as WP7 i'm looking forward to getting one.

mogrim 13y ago

And here it is in on sale: http://www.movistar.es/particulares/movil/moviles-tarjeta/ficha/zte-open-prepago http://www.movistar.es/particulares/movil/moviles-tarjeta/fi...

AndrewDucker 13y ago

I'll be very interested to see how well these take off in the countries they're launched in. I don't see them as much of a competitor in the UK/US/etc.- the people there that want a smartphone have one that's much more higher powered. But in countries where most people can't currently afford smartphones, this offers them the chance of having one. And if they can then start to cannibalise sales from beneath, they have a chance of being a real global competitor.

fauigerzigerk 13y ago
I don't believe people anywhere in the world will keep buying phones for $800. I believe this has been a fad and it's starting to fade.
- Yoric 13y ago
  I wonder about that. I see around me a few people replacing their work computer with a cellphone. That cellphone is more useful for them, cheaper, easier to carry and, with respect to what they manage to use it for, more powerful. Of course, that's just a few samples, so I have no idea about general trends.
  - roc 13y ago
    Even still, at some point the pocket computer people have will be "good enough" that they no longer see the value in an expensive upgrade every couple years. If people are trying to replace their desktop, perhaps it will take a couple additional years for pocket computers to be "good enough" at those tasks. But that won't break the inevitable trend. That will just postpone it a bit.
- seabrookmx 13y ago
  Why pay $800? I can buy a brand new unlocked Nexus 4 for $305 CDN. This is a top tier smartphone.
  - glogla 13y ago

frankblizzard 13y ago

make them available already for developers world wide! geeksphone is always sold out

Yoric 13y ago
Well, it's easier to make software available for developers world wide than to make hardware available for developers world wide. Anybody interested in porting FirefoxOS to every single Android device on Earth? :)
- diggan 13y ago
  You can always do it yourself! https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox_OS/Building_and_installing_Firefox_OS https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox_OS/... https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox_OS/Porting https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox_OS/...

AndrewDucker 13y ago

I'm curious - does it automatically get the latest version of FF when it's released for desktop/Android? And does it support all of the functionality that comes with it? i.e. will it now have the asm.js optimisations and similar?

diggan 13y ago
It's not running Firefox per se, it's running a OS called Boot 2 Gecko[0] and will probably not be updated simultaneously as desktop/mobile Firefox. Yeah, it supports almost the same functionality with some additional things (like WebAPI[1], APIs for hardware access) [0] https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI
- AndrewDucker 13y ago
  Yes, but Gecko is the engine of Firefox, so I was curious whether the version of Gecko (and of the JS engines) are kept in sync.
  - asadotzler 13y ago
    That depends on what you call "in sync". Firefox browsers and Firefox OS share the Gecko engine but the browsers are currently a few versions ahead of the OS because it takes longer to get all the ducks in a row for a new mobile phone release than a browser update.
Yoric 13y ago
I'm not sure about asm.js/OdinMonkey. I believe that FirefoxOS 1.0 does not have it, but that FirefoxOS 1.1 (which should be available as a free over-the-air update) has it. More generally, FirefoxOS does not automatically get the latest version of Gecko, because the process for mobile operating systems is more complex. The operating system must first pass certification by (if I recall) both the constructors and the operators. This operation is both long and costly, so it is probably impossible to follow the Firefox desktop/Android 6 week release cycle for the time being. However, if I had to guess, I would assume that FirefoxOS will receive about one big update every few months, with all the new features and optimizations of Gecko. I know, for instance, that some of the optimizations I have added recently to Gecko have missed the release train for the next version of FirefoxOS (I believe that's still 1.1) but should be part of the release after that.

jdmitch 13y ago

It seems to be the same hardware as the ZTE V790 but with half the memory : http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=5134&idPhone2=5320 http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=5134&idPhone2=...

pja 13y ago

Huge kudos to Mozilla for branching out and trying something different. I hope it works out for them: we could really do with an open competitor to the Google/Apple duopoly.

PommeDeTerre 13y ago
Firefox OS will need to successfully compete against BlackBerry OS, Windows Mobile, bada and the other quite obscure mobile OSes long before it'll have a chance to even begin competing against Android or iOS. Many of these alternative systems have actually shipped on numerous devices, and have actual users. And how exactly is it "different"? Firefox OS is really just a limited subset of what we already have available (and have had for years, in some cases) under these various existing systems. We can already quite successfully run HTML5/CSS/JavaScript-based apps on Android, iOS, and BlackBerry OS for instance. And this is ignoring Firefox OS's inflexibility when it comes to using languages other than JavaScript (sorry, Asm.js and Emscripten are hacks, at best), or writing native applications. It's hard to see how it'll compete on vague notions of "openness" that most consumers really could not care any less about, while failing to compete on things that consumers do care about, like functionality and experience. It can't even really compete on price, given the existence of Android.
- glogla 13y ago
  If I understand it correctly, Firefox OS is different in how it is not bound to one particular corporation. Mozilla's objective here is "build mobile OS" and not "sell more devices" like Apple or "get info on people so we can sell advertising" like Google. This makes me wonder about privacy and Firefox OS. Does it require arbitrary account with credit card paired like iOS or Windows Phone? Does it require account to get most of the functionality like Android? Does it require you to agree that Google will get your location data for network location service to function like Android? Does it not allow you to use it without sending (paid) sms to Nokia with your location, like new Nokia phones? If it doesn't do any of those things, it is different.
  - pjmlp 13y ago

diggan 13y ago

This is my lucky day to be in Spain! Have been following the project from the B2G[0] days and will order a phone ASAP. If you are in Spain, you can order the phone from Telefonica[1] and if you are like me and want to talk with other Firefox OS nerds, there is a Google Plus community for that[2] Also, don't forget that if you want to develop for Firefox OS but don't yet have a device for it, you can run the superfast Firefox OS Simulator[3], super simple and currently the best emulator for a mobile OS. [0] https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G [1] http://www.movistar.es/particulares/movil/moviles-tarjeta/ficha/zte-open-prepago http://www.movistar.es/particulares/movil/moviles-tarjeta/fi... [2] https://plus.google.com/communities/100988731864612801878 https://plus.google.com/communities/100988731864612801878 [3] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Firefox_OS_Simulator https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Firefox_OS_Si...

kimlelly 13y ago
This is currently the most open mobile OS. Count me in!
- drdaeman 13y ago
  Opennes's nice but is it single-person hackable or huge monolithic blob that nobody except the most skilled teams would dare to bite? My problem with Android is that I miserably failed to hack it alone (I wanted to mess with app permission system and make it work my way). The Behemoth seem to have quite a steep learning curve, so I quickly lost my way in its innards. However, I was able hack Maemo (except for proprietary parts) on N900 somehow. Stack was loosely coupled, everything's deb-packaged separately, many components are not in-home inventions but are well-known software (Debian base, X11, OpenSSL, DBus, etc.). Sad thing Maemo's practically dead.
  - Yoric 13y ago
    Well, we have newcomers all the time on both Gecko and Gaia, and they all manage to contribute efficiently. Here's a short overview of how to get started: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/introduction https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/introduction Not necessarily trivial, but just about everybody manages to get started in a few days at worst.

ippisl 13y ago

I fail to see the value of such devices to the consumer. With android devices available at $100 with 1gb, android 4, a large screen, and huge market of highly optimised apps, what can Firefox is offer, except from marketing by carriers which are usually hated by consumers? liliputing.com/2013/06/android-gets-cheaper-meet-the-100-quad-core-phone-59-dual-core-tablet.html

netcan 13y ago
I think you need to compare these to whatever low end android you are likely to find in a local retailer: galaxy mini, Xperia tipo, etc. My guess is that Mozilla see the low end as the most vulnerable angle. Apple aren't going low end. Android aren't excluding it, but <$100 phones are an afterthought. There is always demand at the lower end. Handset makers are happy to fill it. Android might be the best current option, but Google aren't focused on this segment specifically and I think most app developers are developing for high or midrange phones first. A lot of stuff doesn't work well on a cheap android. By focusing on less power and smaller screens, they will encourage developers to make simpler apps that run well on this hardware. It's still early to tell if they have an advantage over android in this market, but it makes sense in theory.
- dan1234 13y ago
  Although it's not generally their style, I wouldn't rule Apple out of a grab for the budget sector. Rumours concerning a low end, plastic iPhone have been gaining momentum for some time now and they already practically give away the previous generation spec'd phones.
  - seabrookmx 13y ago
    Agreed. They used to do this with the plastic Macbooks (hence their popularity at Colleges/Universities). Also the iPad mini, though more expensive than some of its Android competitors, doesn't command the premium price usually associated with an Apple product.

rodolphoarruda 13y ago

I think we are "almost there" in terms of freedom of choice and usage of our mobile device. We are still dependent on the carrier - e.g. Telefonica - to have our phone running our OS of choice. Of course, we have unlocked phones, but that's another thing, another price too. I wish my experience with mobile phones were the same as with laptops: every two years or so I step into a shop and buy a low-end machine on sale, go home and install the latest Ubuntu LTS version. When I first read about Firefox OS I thought I would have the experience as described above. I would buy ANY phone, donwload the Firefox OS, install it and enjoy mobile life from a different perspective. As I said, I think we are "almost there". Maybe that's where Ubuntu Mobile is aiming to.

sergiosgc 13y ago
I used to do that with laptops. Then, I switched to the opposite end of the spectrum. I spend inordinate amounts of time in front of my laptop. If I'm going to outspend myself, it is on the laptop. The personal concession is that laptops must now last at least four years. Now, whenever I need a laptop, I buy the best Lenovo I can find (well, not the absolute best, I aim for best-ish; price curves on laptops are stupid at the very high-end). So far, it has worked better than the expendable machine style.
- glogla 13y ago
  Now if only they put 14" fullHD IPS display into T430 so I can do that as well.
- voltagex_ 13y ago
  I managed to limit my laptop's lifespan to ~1 year by ignoring this advice. I bought the X1 Carbon with 4GB of RAM, instead of waiting for the 8GB (with a significant processor bump too). Oh for a laptop trade-in program.
Yoric 13y ago
Would you be interested in contributing to port Firefox OS to new platforms? Firefox OS can use Android kernel and drivers, so the hard[est] part is done. Doesn't mean that it's necessarily easy, but if you want to run Firefox OS on your hardware of choice, it is at least theoretically possible.

nakedrobot2 13y ago

I think Firefox OS has potentially huge geek (read: early adopter) appeal, which Blackberry and Windows Mobile do not have - they are dead. Tizen, Jolla, and others are just obscure specks. I am rooting for Firefox OS to be a serious contender within a couple of years. I think it has a strong chance to be #3. Likewise I don't think it has any chance whatsoever of taking the #1 or #2 spots - those are going to stay as they are for many years to come.

Apocryphon 13y ago
That's what I suspect so, too- its open nature will be embraced by the hacker mentality, as well as the rising anti-proprietary movement in the wake of the PRISM scandal. The question is, how would it fare against other similar projects, such as Ubuntu Touch?
shmerl 13y ago
Jolla has a better appeal I think. Firstly it's a full pledged Linux, not limited to JavaScript applications only. Secondly one will be able to run Firefox OS applications on Jolla as well, since the browser there is using Gecko.
- bad_user 13y ago
  Jolla also inherits all the problems associated with desktop Linux and it would also have most of the same problems that Android does (fragmentation, upgrade cycle, etc...). I like the Firefox OS concept because it has a better chance at being popular amongst non-technical folks and because, even if it had like 5% of the market share and no more, even so it would bring benefits to everybody, including developers, including end-users - because those Web APIs are also pushed by Mozilla for standardization.
  - shmerl 13y ago
    What are those problems inherited from desktop Linux? I don't like the concept of limited systems like Firefox OS (for me personally) since I prefer more flexible and feature rich systems, but I see nothing wrong with them in general, they can be useful in some cases. The discussion above was about the huge geek appeal, not about the general appeal. That's why I answered that Jolla has a better geek appeal. Although they work hard to address the general public needs as well, in order not to make their system targeted to the tech crowd only.

jb- 13y ago

So far, HN has directed me towards some considerable profits (see Bitcoin, TSLA). Where should I go this time? Telefonica Stock? Alcatel stock?

znowi 13y ago

I'm really excited about Firefox OS. It's a timely alternative to iPhone Garden and Android PRISM :)

shmerl 13y ago

While I'm excited for Mozilla and for creation of wider choice in the mobile space, Firefox OS targeted devices aren't that interesting to me. I'd rather wait for Jolla's handsets to arrive. Not only they'll run glibc Linux proper (Mer based Sailfish OS), they'll also have a Gecko based browser which will be able to run Firefox OS applications as well.

arantius 13y ago

This release prodded me to look into Firefox OS again. I have a Nexus S lying around unused, and that's one of the supported "tier two" devices. So I installed it. I really want to love it. I love Firefox, but Firefox OS is very much "not there" based on my experience. The browser is significantly worse than Firefox for Android. As far as I can tell, Sync is not available at all. Tapping the URL bar just/always puts your cursor where you tapped (does not select the text for easy replacement). Lots of smaller fit/polish things seemed much worse. And the device experience is really strange. There's the "marketplace" but also the .. I don't know what it's called, two swipes to the left of the app launcher screen. The experience is very poor compared to Android/iOS; using familiar "apps" is really the mobile site for that service, and doesn't work as well as the Android apps I'm used to. (I.E.: Rating a movive in IMDB takes one tap to load another page, one tap to open the select box, another to pick the value, then another to submit that form. Versus one tap on Android.) Lots of the "real apps" from the marketplace are also immediately greyed out if you lose data. Including simple games that totally should work offline. (Though I was recently surprised by how many games refused to run without an internet connection on my Android tablet recently, also.)

Yoric 13y ago
> And the device experience is really strange. There's the "marketplace" but also the .. I don't know what it's called, two swipes to the left of the app launcher screen. The experience is very poor compared to Android/iOS; using familiar "apps" is really the mobile site for that service, and doesn't work as well as the Android apps I'm used to. (I.E.: Rating a movive in IMDB takes one tap to load another page, one tap to open the select box, another to pick the value, then another to submit that form. Versus one tap on Android.) > > Lots of the "real apps" from the marketplace are also immediately greyed out if you lose data. Including simple games that totally should work offline. (Though I was recently surprised by how many games refused to run without an internet connection on my Android tablet recently, also.) You should complain with the app authors and get them to improve their mobile website and/or their manifest. This will be beneficial to everyone.