5 ms·

The good news is, Switzerland is a democracy that works really well. So just vote against that new crap law.

by kimlelly 13y ago

FrojoS 13y ago
The bad new is, that many of the laws we deem evil are very popular with the general public.
- kimlelly 13y ago
  The good news is, we can actually do something about it. So let's get to work. EDIT: As an example - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6007688 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6007688
zalew 13y ago
The ordinary news is, it's a democracy that works similarily to just any other - there is a lot of indifference, propaganda, and the turnouts aren't that high.
- kimlelly 13y ago
  Switzerland has a very direct democracy, unlike for example in the US. EDIT - Nothing personal, but to all you nay sayers: You are PART of the problem, you need to take a look in the mirror. (And yes, go ahead and downvote, I couldn't give less of a f#ck.)
  - zalew 13y ago
    I know how Switzerland works, referendums are cool, but that doesn't make anything I said less true.
  - rieter 13y ago
    Direct democracy isn't automatically good. Just look at California.
    - kimlelly 13y ago
      Yes, it also needs: 1. Analytical thinking skills (school/education is there for this) 2. Critical thinking skills (school/education is there for this) 3. Entirely free flowing information
      - kimlelly 13y ago
        EDIT: If anybody else wants to add anything destructive to the movement, just keep it coming...
lawl 13y ago
I will, however, as I see it, the problem is no one seems to really care here. Ask some random stranger here and pretty sure they have never even heard of BÜPF. So I try to educate as many people as possible but all I hear is that I should go wear my alu-hat and that we have good privacy protection laws and they don't have anything to hide anyways. And by the way, to be even able to vote against this crap, you need something like 50'000 signatures (on paper!) within 100 days. Which might not be too easy considering that the petition website only has 8k-ish as of now and it's been on for quite a while. As I said, no one seems to care.
- kimlelly 13y ago
  Good! Keep on educating people! More knowledge means more responsibility. Don't forget that we have the social network effect on our side, today. Things may suddenly go very fast. If people are unaware of the dangers, send them links to the recent news. There's enough to see that total surveillance and therefor manipulation of the People and corruption within government is about to become the new "normal". EDIT: And if there's 1 law about democracy, it's this: "Every single vote counts!" There is no "my vote wouldn't change anything". If you ever only think that, then you can kiss democracy goodbye for real.
- _k 13y ago
  The indifference is a worldwide phenomenon. And it's problematic because indifference is what gave Hitler the chance to become more powerful, indifference helped him identify minorities and it helped him build 45 concentration camps, ... the list goes on and on. You all know what happened next. Would Hitler have been a problem if it wasn't for our indifference ? Would the technology that build the internet have been used against us if it wasn't for our indifference ? Indifference is probably more dangerous than those who have "evil" intentions. And I don't have a solution. I don't know what we can do about it, other than educating people on it but it's clearly not working and it needs to happen now because the problem is getting bigger by the day, imo. It's our indifference that gets us into a lot of trouble. Time and time again.
  - lukifer 13y ago

The good news is, Switzerland is a democracy that works really well. So just vote against that new crap law.

FrojoS 13y ago

The bad new is, that many of the laws we deem evil are very popular with the general public.

kimlelly 13y ago
The good news is, we can actually do something about it. So let's get to work. EDIT: As an example - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6007688 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6007688

zalew 13y ago

The ordinary news is, it's a democracy that works similarily to just any other - there is a lot of indifference, propaganda, and the turnouts aren't that high.

kimlelly 13y ago
Switzerland has a very direct democracy, unlike for example in the US. EDIT - Nothing personal, but to all you nay sayers: You are PART of the problem, you need to take a look in the mirror. (And yes, go ahead and downvote, I couldn't give less of a f#ck.)
- zalew 13y ago
  I know how Switzerland works, referendums are cool, but that doesn't make anything I said less true.
- rieter 13y ago
  Direct democracy isn't automatically good. Just look at California.
  - kimlelly 13y ago
    Yes, it also needs: 1. Analytical thinking skills (school/education is there for this) 2. Critical thinking skills (school/education is there for this) 3. Entirely free flowing information
    - kimlelly 13y ago
      EDIT: If anybody else wants to add anything destructive to the movement, just keep it coming...

lawl 13y ago

I will, however, as I see it, the problem is no one seems to really care here. Ask some random stranger here and pretty sure they have never even heard of BÜPF. So I try to educate as many people as possible but all I hear is that I should go wear my alu-hat and that we have good privacy protection laws and they don't have anything to hide anyways. And by the way, to be even able to vote against this crap, you need something like 50'000 signatures (on paper!) within 100 days. Which might not be too easy considering that the petition website only has 8k-ish as of now and it's been on for quite a while. As I said, no one seems to care.

kimlelly 13y ago
Good! Keep on educating people! More knowledge means more responsibility. Don't forget that we have the social network effect on our side, today. Things may suddenly go very fast. If people are unaware of the dangers, send them links to the recent news. There's enough to see that total surveillance and therefor manipulation of the People and corruption within government is about to become the new "normal". EDIT: And if there's 1 law about democracy, it's this: "Every single vote counts!" There is no "my vote wouldn't change anything". If you ever only think that, then you can kiss democracy goodbye for real.
_k 13y ago
The indifference is a worldwide phenomenon. And it's problematic because indifference is what gave Hitler the chance to become more powerful, indifference helped him identify minorities and it helped him build 45 concentration camps, ... the list goes on and on. You all know what happened next. Would Hitler have been a problem if it wasn't for our indifference ? Would the technology that build the internet have been used against us if it wasn't for our indifference ? Indifference is probably more dangerous than those who have "evil" intentions. And I don't have a solution. I don't know what we can do about it, other than educating people on it but it's clearly not working and it needs to happen now because the problem is getting bigger by the day, imo. It's our indifference that gets us into a lot of trouble. Time and time again.
- lukifer 13y ago