12 ms·

After PRISM reports, Swiss data bank sees boost

133 points by iProject 13y ago

brown9-2 13y ago
This article reminds me of http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html - no concrete numbers are mentioned of the company's increased usage/customers, and the only quotes presented are from this company's CEO, who obviously have a lot to benefit from an article touting the benefits of a Swiss data center.
- UVB-76 13y ago
  I wouldn't consider this particular instance malicious; it's just lazy journalism. Journalist under pressure to churn out a quick, sanitized, topical piece meets pro-active CEO of a hosting company with a knack for PR and a pre-packaged story, quotes and all. This article is from the same journalist who typo'd the headline of her previous piece [1] [1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/keyboard-app-givers-users-a-customized-feel/2013/07/06/d22cce54-df60-11e2-b2d4-ea6d8f477a01_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/keyboard-app-givers-u...
Create 13y ago
SWIFT
lawl 13y ago
Swiss here. It's not really any better here. Right now they're trying to push a law that would legalize it for them to save metadata for all connections up to 12 months. And they could legaly install RAT's on phones and PC's. It's called "BÜPF" but i can't find an english page right now. You might want to use google translate on the petition site (by the local pirate party, CCC switzerland etc.): http://buepf.ch http://buepf.ch (and sign it if you can be bothered) //edit: direct gtranslate link: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=buepf.ch&act=url http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&pre...
- kimlelly 13y ago
  The good news is, Switzerland is a democracy that works really well. So just vote against that new crap law.
  - FrojoS 13y ago
    The bad new is, that many of the laws we deem evil are very popular with the general public.
    - kimlelly 13y ago
      The good news is, we can actually do something about it. So let's get to work. EDIT: As an example - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6007688 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6007688
  - zalew 13y ago
    The ordinary news is, it's a democracy that works similarily to just any other - there is a lot of indifference, propaganda, and the turnouts aren't that high.
    - kimlelly 13y ago
      Switzerland has a very direct democracy, unlike for example in the US. EDIT - Nothing personal, but to all you nay sayers: You are PART of the problem, you need to take a look in the mirror. (And yes, go ahead and downvote, I couldn't give less of a f#ck.)
      - zalew 13y ago
        I know how Switzerland works, referendums are cool, but that doesn't make anything I said less true.
      - rieter 13y ago
        Direct democracy isn't automatically good. Just look at California.
mtgx 13y ago
Those poor souls must not have heard of this news: "U.S. and Switzerland Reach Deal on Sharing of Financial Account Data" http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/business/global/22iht-tax22.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/business/global/22iht-tax2... This is also interesting: > "Switzerland’s cooperation comes after the Justice Department prosecuted 11 Swiss banks on suspicion of aiding Americans in evading taxes, creating deep uncertainty for the country’s financial sector." How many US banks has the Justice Department prosecuted yet?
- zalew 13y ago
  > This is also interesting: >> "Switzerland’s cooperation comes after the Justice Department prosecuted 11 Swiss banks on suspicion of aiding Americans in evading taxes, creating deep uncertainty for the country’s financial sector." details in case somebody missed that: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20907359 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20907359 http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-01-20/news/36432605_1_wegelin-konrad-hummler-swiss-banks http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-01-20/news... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/04/swiss-bank-wegelin-close-tax-evasion http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/04/swiss-bank-wegel...
tmuir 13y ago
Isn't this equivalent to Edward Snowden's asylum dilemma? The offer of asylum is pretty worthless if he can't get to that country. Heck, last week it was proven that he would need favorable countries to form solid continuous path of sovereign land between Moscow and the asylum granting country. The offer of a secure location to store data in Switzerland is pretty worthless if the data has to be transferred over compromised data lines that have to run through at least one of the three surrounding countries, all complicit in tapping the lines.
- Spearchucker 13y ago
  Not if you encrypt. A lot of information is useful only for a short period of time. For instance, if a company is planning a new product/strategy/IPO then it doesn't matter if the data is maliciously decrypted within a month, 2 years or 5 years.
dfc 13y ago
It would be interesting to compare the self reported boost in business after PRISM revelations to the boost in business after being mentioned in a WaPo article.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
Techpope 13y ago
The saddest part about this whole PRISM scandal to me is that the tech companies involved did not seem at all opposed to the idea - and even if they were, why not give your customers a heads up? It's so sad. Nerds need to get on the moral high ground pronto. Your technology is making the world so much better so don't ruin it. Don't be evil and don't be a dick.
- kimlelly 13y ago
  People need to remember/learn this: If democracy is not strong enough (and I know a few countries...), you (also) need to vote with your wallet. If they don't feel no pain, they won't react.
  - Techpope 13y ago
    Correct. Regarding companies like Google, Microsoft, Facebook and Yahoo; the answer is not using their services at all since you don't pay them yourself but you do by viewing ads.
    - kimlelly 13y ago
      And also by giving them your data.
      - Techpope 13y ago
        Yes, the worst part I forgot :P
    - blablabla123 13y ago
      A week ago I started to migrate my Google Docs data to a git repository. Right now I use plain text files and Latex. Damn, I totally forgot how cool it is to access your data when you don't have an Internet connection.
      - kimlelly 13y ago
        Agree, local storage should always be the default choice, whenever you can.
MichaelGG 13y ago
"You’ve probably heard of the unique benefits of Swiss banks" Yeah, I heard that's no longer true. There's few countries that have proper banking secrecy anymore. Panama gave up their last bit of secrecy after the US helped the last president get elected by spying on his competitors. Guatemala does have secrecy. It's built into the last constitution of the country (in the 80s). Not even the Guatemalan revenue service is allowed to review bank accounts. OTOH, it's probably not the most stable country to want to park your money in.
- jlmendezbonini 13y ago
  > Panama gave up their last bit of secrecy after the US helped the last president get elected by spying on his competitors. Any reference to back that up? I read some of the leaks from Bradley Manning related to Panama and the U.S. clearly stated that it didn't favor Martinelli (current president).
  - MichaelGG 13y ago
    Apparently I'm wrong. Wikileaks had some cables talking about how Martinelli asked the US to spy for him, but they denied him[1]. He did however, end banking secrecy for Panama/US in 2011(?), with a tax treaty. I probably misunderstood after reading some expat sites and connecting lines that perhaps are not connected. http://www.cato.org/blog/wikileaks-cable-martinelli-threat-rule-law-panama http://www.cato.org/blog/wikileaks-cable-martinelli-threat-r...
scrumper 13y ago
Off topic, but what is the name for the grammatical concept of the difference between NY Times/Washington Post-style headlines like this one ("After PRISM reports, Swiss data bank sees boost") and British-style newspaper headlines which use a more active* voice, e.g. "Swiss data bank sees boost after PRISM reports." *I've probably got that term wrong.
- abalashov 13y ago
  This is not a passive vs. active voice thing. The subject and object are the same in both sentences. It's just slightly different word order.
lvxn0va 13y ago
But, please enlighten me..It doesn't matter where the cloud or datastore endpoint "offramp" is, are they not sucking the info at the "Onramp" of the freeway or on the beginning side of the transaction?

133 points by iProject 13y ago

This article reminds me of http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html - no concrete numbers are mentioned of the company's increased usage/customers, and the only quotes presented are from this company's CEO, who obviously have a lot to benefit from an article touting the benefits of a Swiss data center.

UVB-76 13y ago
I wouldn't consider this particular instance malicious; it's just lazy journalism. Journalist under pressure to churn out a quick, sanitized, topical piece meets pro-active CEO of a hosting company with a knack for PR and a pre-packaged story, quotes and all. This article is from the same journalist who typo'd the headline of her previous piece [1] [1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/keyboard-app-givers-users-a-customized-feel/2013/07/06/d22cce54-df60-11e2-b2d4-ea6d8f477a01_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/keyboard-app-givers-u...

Create 13y ago

SWIFT

lawl 13y ago

Swiss here. It's not really any better here. Right now they're trying to push a law that would legalize it for them to save metadata for all connections up to 12 months. And they could legaly install RAT's on phones and PC's. It's called "BÜPF" but i can't find an english page right now. You might want to use google translate on the petition site (by the local pirate party, CCC switzerland etc.): http://buepf.ch http://buepf.ch (and sign it if you can be bothered) //edit: direct gtranslate link: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=buepf.ch&act=url http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&pre...

kimlelly 13y ago
The good news is, Switzerland is a democracy that works really well. So just vote against that new crap law.
- FrojoS 13y ago
  The bad new is, that many of the laws we deem evil are very popular with the general public.
  - kimlelly 13y ago
    The good news is, we can actually do something about it. So let's get to work. EDIT: As an example - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6007688 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6007688
- zalew 13y ago
  The ordinary news is, it's a democracy that works similarily to just any other - there is a lot of indifference, propaganda, and the turnouts aren't that high.
  - kimlelly 13y ago
    Switzerland has a very direct democracy, unlike for example in the US. EDIT - Nothing personal, but to all you nay sayers: You are PART of the problem, you need to take a look in the mirror. (And yes, go ahead and downvote, I couldn't give less of a f#ck.)
    - zalew 13y ago
      I know how Switzerland works, referendums are cool, but that doesn't make anything I said less true.
    - rieter 13y ago
      Direct democracy isn't automatically good. Just look at California.

mtgx 13y ago

Those poor souls must not have heard of this news: "U.S. and Switzerland Reach Deal on Sharing of Financial Account Data" http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/business/global/22iht-tax22.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/business/global/22iht-tax2... This is also interesting: > "Switzerland’s cooperation comes after the Justice Department prosecuted 11 Swiss banks on suspicion of aiding Americans in evading taxes, creating deep uncertainty for the country’s financial sector." How many US banks has the Justice Department prosecuted yet?

zalew 13y ago
> This is also interesting: >> "Switzerland’s cooperation comes after the Justice Department prosecuted 11 Swiss banks on suspicion of aiding Americans in evading taxes, creating deep uncertainty for the country’s financial sector." details in case somebody missed that: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20907359 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20907359 http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-01-20/news/36432605_1_wegelin-konrad-hummler-swiss-banks http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-01-20/news... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/04/swiss-bank-wegelin-close-tax-evasion http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/04/swiss-bank-wegel...

tmuir 13y ago

Isn't this equivalent to Edward Snowden's asylum dilemma? The offer of asylum is pretty worthless if he can't get to that country. Heck, last week it was proven that he would need favorable countries to form solid continuous path of sovereign land between Moscow and the asylum granting country. The offer of a secure location to store data in Switzerland is pretty worthless if the data has to be transferred over compromised data lines that have to run through at least one of the three surrounding countries, all complicit in tapping the lines.

Spearchucker 13y ago
Not if you encrypt. A lot of information is useful only for a short period of time. For instance, if a company is planning a new product/strategy/IPO then it doesn't matter if the data is maliciously decrypted within a month, 2 years or 5 years.

dfc 13y ago

It would be interesting to compare the self reported boost in business after PRISM revelations to the boost in business after being mentioned in a WaPo article.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

Techpope 13y ago

The saddest part about this whole PRISM scandal to me is that the tech companies involved did not seem at all opposed to the idea - and even if they were, why not give your customers a heads up? It's so sad. Nerds need to get on the moral high ground pronto. Your technology is making the world so much better so don't ruin it. Don't be evil and don't be a dick.

kimlelly 13y ago
People need to remember/learn this: If democracy is not strong enough (and I know a few countries...), you (also) need to vote with your wallet. If they don't feel no pain, they won't react.
- Techpope 13y ago
  Correct. Regarding companies like Google, Microsoft, Facebook and Yahoo; the answer is not using their services at all since you don't pay them yourself but you do by viewing ads.
  - kimlelly 13y ago
    And also by giving them your data.
    - Techpope 13y ago
      Yes, the worst part I forgot :P
  - blablabla123 13y ago
    A week ago I started to migrate my Google Docs data to a git repository. Right now I use plain text files and Latex. Damn, I totally forgot how cool it is to access your data when you don't have an Internet connection.
    - kimlelly 13y ago
      Agree, local storage should always be the default choice, whenever you can.

MichaelGG 13y ago

"You’ve probably heard of the unique benefits of Swiss banks" Yeah, I heard that's no longer true. There's few countries that have proper banking secrecy anymore. Panama gave up their last bit of secrecy after the US helped the last president get elected by spying on his competitors. Guatemala does have secrecy. It's built into the last constitution of the country (in the 80s). Not even the Guatemalan revenue service is allowed to review bank accounts. OTOH, it's probably not the most stable country to want to park your money in.

jlmendezbonini 13y ago
> Panama gave up their last bit of secrecy after the US helped the last president get elected by spying on his competitors. Any reference to back that up? I read some of the leaks from Bradley Manning related to Panama and the U.S. clearly stated that it didn't favor Martinelli (current president).
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  Apparently I'm wrong. Wikileaks had some cables talking about how Martinelli asked the US to spy for him, but they denied him[1]. He did however, end banking secrecy for Panama/US in 2011(?), with a tax treaty. I probably misunderstood after reading some expat sites and connecting lines that perhaps are not connected. http://www.cato.org/blog/wikileaks-cable-martinelli-threat-rule-law-panama http://www.cato.org/blog/wikileaks-cable-martinelli-threat-r...

scrumper 13y ago

Off topic, but what is the name for the grammatical concept of the difference between NY Times/Washington Post-style headlines like this one ("After PRISM reports, Swiss data bank sees boost") and British-style newspaper headlines which use a more active* voice, e.g. "Swiss data bank sees boost after PRISM reports." *I've probably got that term wrong.

abalashov 13y ago
This is not a passive vs. active voice thing. The subject and object are the same in both sentences. It's just slightly different word order.

lvxn0va 13y ago

But, please enlighten me..It doesn't matter where the cloud or datastore endpoint "offramp" is, are they not sucking the info at the "Onramp" of the freeway or on the beginning side of the transaction?