4 ms·

Wow, reading the comments on that article, it seems we're lost. Too many frightened Lemmings who out of fear and in the name of patriotism (apparently not unde

Wow, reading the comments on that article, it seems we're lost. Too many frightened Lemmings who out of fear and in the name of patriotism (apparently not understanding what that word even means) follow their government blindly. It was said before that a fearful and uneducated populous is easy to lead and manipulate. We're now seeing a demonstration of that.

pyre 13y ago
On the other hand, how many of them are either 1) government employees with a larger stake in the status quo than the rest of the population or 2) government shills meant to 'set the tone' for the conversation to something favourable to the government?
- nextw33k 13y ago
  You ought to read tabloids and watch reality TV, there is no need for shills. There are enough bigots out there do feed the fire.
  - pyre 13y ago
    I wouldn't necessarily say that one needs to be a bigot to be pro-US government at this time. Drinking the Koolaid isn't the same as harbouring sever hatred.
oleganza 13y ago
It's no suprise since people are educated in government schools in their most crucial period of life. They are educated by state-licensed radio, television and newspapers. By state-approved books on the bookshelves of a state-approved shops. Who will exactly stand out and educate children of the nature of state if this way or another they lose some license or are being paid from tax money in the first place? Several generations already are out of touch with reality that the state is just a bunch of people with a monopoly of violence (justified in the eyes of similarly uneducated parents by piles of paperwork called "law" and "democracy"). State is a constant war against people covered with lies. The only productive way to get out of this situation is to 1) acknowledge that violence is never justified, risky and counter-productive 2) state violence is not justified, employs double standards all the time, and exists on religious beliefs in higher concepts like "country" or "society" that seemingly take precedence over individuals. And of course, you have to trust and follow authority, just like in good old dark ages. EDIT: before downvoting, consider replying what is factually wrong in my comment.
- falk 13y ago
  Here's a great George Carlin clip on why education is never going to get any better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMqJvhmD5Yg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMqJvhmD5Yg
- threeseed 13y ago
  Sorry but what is factually right with your comment ? Not everyone in educated in government schools. Your implication that merely being state licensed influences the content is ridiculous (witness Fox News). The state does not have a monopoly on violence. The terms country and society have nothing to do with religion and patriotism is a concept that occurs in countries without a strong religious presence.
  - hobs 13y ago
    Not disagreeing with the meat of your post, but could you say a little bit more about the state not having a monopoly on violence? From what I understand this term is used to explain that the government is the only one who is legally allowed to use violence against other individuals, and is the only one who can grant you that power. And as far as I can tell that IS the case. Thoughts?
  - oleganza 13y ago
    I think it's not an exaggeration that most of the people are exposed to state propaganda (or excuses for the state) since the very beginning. Most of people are educated in government schools where no teacher would seriously talk about being paid from taxes that are taken by force instead of voluntarily. Do you think people pay taxes voluntarily? When you suddenly dislike NSA or war in Iraq, or war on drugs, or rape in prison, or torture in Guantanamo, or capital punishment or bank bail outs, can you protest by not giving a part of your money to the state? No you cannot, because there is always a gun pointed at you. And you know it very well. Similarly you cannot vote for no master or no taxes. You only get to vote when other people prescribed and for a narrow set of people who will decide how to spend money taken from you. And then you are being brainwashed to think that "anybody who does not vote is not a patriot and should shut up". Somehow if me and my friends get together and vote something against you we don't get magical power of Justice, but if some other bunch of people do the same, then they get that power. Think about it. People are killed because of these beliefs. Religion in my view is not some particular kind of worship like christianity. Religion is a belief in higher matters that are more important than any human being. In case of government, it is a belief that the "government" is a special entity that actually exists and is important and has not only power, but must have such power to punish and reward individuals. While in reality no such thing exists. Government is simply a conceptual label that is used to excuse very real human beings when they point weapons at other human beings.
sentenza 13y ago
One thing I'd like to add: IMO most people that support mass surveillance don't do so because they are scared of terrorism. To me it looks more lik an "us vs. them" powertrip thing.
jmccree 13y ago
I feel like on the NSA issue, the mass public just doesn't care. It's too abstract. Until something like actual recordings or transcripts of everyday americans are leaked, "Joe the plumber" will still be thinking "I don't care if they know I have clogged toilet at 2pm".

pyre 13y ago

On the other hand, how many of them are either 1) government employees with a larger stake in the status quo than the rest of the population or 2) government shills meant to 'set the tone' for the conversation to something favourable to the government?

nextw33k 13y ago
You ought to read tabloids and watch reality TV, there is no need for shills. There are enough bigots out there do feed the fire.
- pyre 13y ago
  I wouldn't necessarily say that one needs to be a bigot to be pro-US government at this time. Drinking the Koolaid isn't the same as harbouring sever hatred.

oleganza 13y ago

It's no suprise since people are educated in government schools in their most crucial period of life. They are educated by state-licensed radio, television and newspapers. By state-approved books on the bookshelves of a state-approved shops. Who will exactly stand out and educate children of the nature of state if this way or another they lose some license or are being paid from tax money in the first place? Several generations already are out of touch with reality that the state is just a bunch of people with a monopoly of violence (justified in the eyes of similarly uneducated parents by piles of paperwork called "law" and "democracy"). State is a constant war against people covered with lies. The only productive way to get out of this situation is to 1) acknowledge that violence is never justified, risky and counter-productive 2) state violence is not justified, employs double standards all the time, and exists on religious beliefs in higher concepts like "country" or "society" that seemingly take precedence over individuals. And of course, you have to trust and follow authority, just like in good old dark ages. EDIT: before downvoting, consider replying what is factually wrong in my comment.

falk 13y ago
Here's a great George Carlin clip on why education is never going to get any better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMqJvhmD5Yg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMqJvhmD5Yg
threeseed 13y ago
Sorry but what is factually right with your comment ? Not everyone in educated in government schools. Your implication that merely being state licensed influences the content is ridiculous (witness Fox News). The state does not have a monopoly on violence. The terms country and society have nothing to do with religion and patriotism is a concept that occurs in countries without a strong religious presence.
- hobs 13y ago
  Not disagreeing with the meat of your post, but could you say a little bit more about the state not having a monopoly on violence? From what I understand this term is used to explain that the government is the only one who is legally allowed to use violence against other individuals, and is the only one who can grant you that power. And as far as I can tell that IS the case. Thoughts?
- oleganza 13y ago
  I think it's not an exaggeration that most of the people are exposed to state propaganda (or excuses for the state) since the very beginning. Most of people are educated in government schools where no teacher would seriously talk about being paid from taxes that are taken by force instead of voluntarily. Do you think people pay taxes voluntarily? When you suddenly dislike NSA or war in Iraq, or war on drugs, or rape in prison, or torture in Guantanamo, or capital punishment or bank bail outs, can you protest by not giving a part of your money to the state? No you cannot, because there is always a gun pointed at you. And you know it very well. Similarly you cannot vote for no master or no taxes. You only get to vote when other people prescribed and for a narrow set of people who will decide how to spend money taken from you. And then you are being brainwashed to think that "anybody who does not vote is not a patriot and should shut up". Somehow if me and my friends get together and vote something against you we don't get magical power of Justice, but if some other bunch of people do the same, then they get that power. Think about it. People are killed because of these beliefs. Religion in my view is not some particular kind of worship like christianity. Religion is a belief in higher matters that are more important than any human being. In case of government, it is a belief that the "government" is a special entity that actually exists and is important and has not only power, but must have such power to punish and reward individuals. While in reality no such thing exists. Government is simply a conceptual label that is used to excuse very real human beings when they point weapons at other human beings.

sentenza 13y ago

One thing I'd like to add: IMO most people that support mass surveillance don't do so because they are scared of terrorism. To me it looks more lik an "us vs. them" powertrip thing.

jmccree 13y ago

I feel like on the NSA issue, the mass public just doesn't care. It's too abstract. Until something like actual recordings or transcripts of everyday americans are leaked, "Joe the plumber" will still be thinking "I don't care if they know I have clogged toilet at 2pm".