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I know a woman from Iran who has gone through something similar. She came to Canada to study as a grad student. Brilliant woman! At first we were the enemy. Sh

by beloch 13y ago

I know a woman from Iran who has gone through something similar. She came to Canada to study as a grad student. Brilliant woman! At first we were the enemy. She wore the hijab, maintained links with home and didn't socialize.I think having adult male students treat her like Canadians generally treat teachers really threw her for a loop! Gradually she started making friends and connecting with colleagues. Eventually the hijab was tossed in the bin and she seemed essentially Western. She also completely cut off contact with her family and is still apt to spout off angrily if Iran is even mentioned. Her family's worst fears were made manifest. She was seduced and corrupted by Western devils. She is probably an embarrassment to them, but a distant one. This is the scary thing. For many women, the price of freedom in the West is losing their home and family forever. I've seen other equally brilliant women in similar circumstances maintain their walls throughout their studies and disappear back home never to be heard from again. For them, the price of freedom is too high. I can't imagine what it must be like to face such a choice. ----------------- Edit: While some would say this is a social issue that doesn't belong on HN, these women are potentially your coworkers or employees. I would argue that they have special needs which may be important to understand. Specifically, if your workplace is full of people who don't socialize with each other outside work hours, the odds of these women going back home, possibly without much warning, probably increase significantly.

msoad 13y ago
Iran is in a specific situation right now. Unlike Saudi Arabia or Lennon, Islam practices are mandatory in public. Things like wearing hijab. As you might or might not expect, this have reverse effect in practice. It also lowered islam's repetitation in our culture. I would say more than half of Iranian yought do not believe in Islam. As a result you will see less violence against women from Iranian people. it's hard to find young Iranian in the USA or Canada that still practices Islam. It peobably means that person is from a family with strong religious belifes. It's hard to deal with both your family and enjoying your freedom. I appreciate your understanding on this.
waps 13y ago
About the social issue. Reading this obviously points out another social issue : the complete inability of HNers to have an informed opinion on islam. Or maybe it should be put another way : the implied social duty to on one hand be disgusted by islam (I get the impression from many posts here that that is the feeling between the lines), and to deny that that is the case, even articulate supposed moral equivalence. The islam is bad, but so are some christians argument, where for example constant mob-based violent repression of people is equated to a parent refusing to let a minor date someone for some reason, and not report the obvious difference between those 2 social situations. Nobody in America is locked up, and nobody will be killed for "disobeying" (with the exception of criminal activity, of course). America has freedom of speech and opinion. Well, frankly, there is something in America making people afraid of voicing their opinions on this matter. It just drips from the comments here that the general opinion it is (justifiably) very negative, yet nobody wants to come out and say it. Why can't we have the obvious simple opinion : are muslims all horrible people ? No. Are some of them ? Yes. Are some of them horrible people BECAUSE of islam, because they want to be what they consider muslim ? Yes, absolutely. Is islam's prophet an immoral, disgusting bastard ? You better know it. Is islam itself bad ? Yes. I'm not necessarily a fan of christianity, or any other religion, but frankly I think 99% of the islamic religion justifies opposition just as cults do, legal opposition, social opposition, ... In a way that 99% of christianity doesn't. I don't understand why openly destructive and repressive ideologies have to be given a free hand just because "they're a religion" (besides, anyone who has even a basic familiarity with it will agree islam is a state, not a religion). So I've said it. Let the consequences of whatever dumb social contract I've just violated come. This whole thread reads like it's a bunch of twelve year olds talking to their parents for permission slips for sex ed.

by beloch 13y ago

msoad 13y ago

Iran is in a specific situation right now. Unlike Saudi Arabia or Lennon, Islam practices are mandatory in public. Things like wearing hijab. As you might or might not expect, this have reverse effect in practice. It also lowered islam's repetitation in our culture. I would say more than half of Iranian yought do not believe in Islam. As a result you will see less violence against women from Iranian people. it's hard to find young Iranian in the USA or Canada that still practices Islam. It peobably means that person is from a family with strong religious belifes. It's hard to deal with both your family and enjoying your freedom. I appreciate your understanding on this.

waps 13y ago

About the social issue. Reading this obviously points out another social issue : the complete inability of HNers to have an informed opinion on islam. Or maybe it should be put another way : the implied social duty to on one hand be disgusted by islam (I get the impression from many posts here that that is the feeling between the lines), and to deny that that is the case, even articulate supposed moral equivalence. The islam is bad, but so are some christians argument, where for example constant mob-based violent repression of people is equated to a parent refusing to let a minor date someone for some reason, and not report the obvious difference between those 2 social situations. Nobody in America is locked up, and nobody will be killed for "disobeying" (with the exception of criminal activity, of course). America has freedom of speech and opinion. Well, frankly, there is something in America making people afraid of voicing their opinions on this matter. It just drips from the comments here that the general opinion it is (justifiably) very negative, yet nobody wants to come out and say it. Why can't we have the obvious simple opinion : are muslims all horrible people ? No. Are some of them ? Yes. Are some of them horrible people BECAUSE of islam, because they want to be what they consider muslim ? Yes, absolutely. Is islam's prophet an immoral, disgusting bastard ? You better know it. Is islam itself bad ? Yes. I'm not necessarily a fan of christianity, or any other religion, but frankly I think 99% of the islamic religion justifies opposition just as cults do, legal opposition, social opposition, ... In a way that 99% of christianity doesn't. I don't understand why openly destructive and repressive ideologies have to be given a free hand just because "they're a religion" (besides, anyone who has even a basic familiarity with it will agree islam is a state, not a religion). So I've said it. Let the consequences of whatever dumb social contract I've just violated come. This whole thread reads like it's a bunch of twelve year olds talking to their parents for permission slips for sex ed.