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You stand behind the I/O issue and then later admit to benefitting from fasting techniques which are most likely affecting your insulin cycle, which is the purp

by crusso 13y ago

You stand behind the I/O issue and then later admit to benefitting from fasting techniques which are most likely affecting your insulin cycle, which is the purpose of a low carb diet. Atkins dieters experience positive results due to calorie restriction When you're on a low carb diet, your carb cravings are reduced or go away. You tend to eat less. It seems like you wanted to be snarky about the analogy I made but you didn't really understand it.

encoderer 13y ago
Maybe I didn't understand it, you tell me. You're suggesting (with scoff) that driving fewer miles will naturally reduce risk of accident, so by putting less gas in the car you'll force yourself to drive fewer miles. So you tell me what I'm missing there. Because as interpreted that's a pretty poor analogy. More importantly, I'm not trying to be a critic on your writing style, which is why I have 1 sentence about the analogy followed by paragraphs about your larger point. Looking at the mental portion of this, the learning to eat less and better, your comments about atkins..."tend to eat less" reminds me of exactly what I say about my strategy of "intermittent fasting." (Which is a phrase I didn't learn until recently, well after I've lost the weight). What I mean is, in both cases, behavioral changes lead to eating less. And I firmly, 100% believe that THAT is the primary mechanism that worked for me. Not changes to insulin levels effecting metabolism. But specifically: I eat far less than I used to. Far less. And THAT is why I've lost weight. And intermittent fasting helps me to accomplish that the way Atkins does to followers of that diet, ditto Paleo, ditto the Cookie Diet, etc. Most importantly: I hope everybody acknowledges that there's mountains of contradictory research and a lot of complicated science here that nobody really understands. All we know for sure is what has worked for us, not even always why, and we are on very thin ice advocating to others what they should do.
- crusso 13y ago
  From what you've posted in this thread, I gather that you have not taken the time to understand insulin, what it is, and how low carb diets affect insulin, carbohydrate cravings and cell metabolism. First link briefly covers the insulin response second link is general information regarding insulin. http://www.spinalhealth.net/insulin.html http://www.spinalhealth.net/insulin.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin See the Gary Taube youtube link elsewhere in this thread for a great deal more information. mountains of contradictory research Not really. There's mountains of research and then public policy officials and non-scientist nutritionists that have let the food industry provide guidelines and cheap foods that aren't really good for us. As Gary Taube points out in the video link, the science is old news. The puzzling thing is why the science has been ignored for so long.
  - encoderer 13y ago
    And from what you've posted in the thread, I gather you believe nutrition and weight gain or loss can be explained in the micro sense by individual things like insulin. Most of what I know about sugar, simple carbs in general, and insulin is what I learned from the just-OK book http://www.amazon.com/Sugar-Blues-William-Dufty/dp/0446343129 http://www.amazon.com/Sugar-Blues-William-Dufty/dp/044634312... But most of what I've learned about weight gain/loss and nutrition I've learned from books and research that look at the subject from a macro level. The summation of everything I've read on the subject -- and I read a lot through my year long experience of losing weigh and changing almost entirely how I thought about food -- and my own experiences make me believe firmly that this is primarily an I/O issue. And as much as you say "the science is settled and I am right" it's contradicted by a lot of smart people who study this and admit essentially 'the science of nutrition is immature and in many times conclusions are contradictory.' The most recent time I heard that was just last week in the same Pollan NPR interview I mentioned elsewhere. (Though i think this was a re-broadcast, not sure the original broadcast date) To be clear, here's my take: 1. Primarily an I/O issue. Everything else is a distant 2nd place. 2. How much of the equation is I/O? I don't know. 75%? 50%? It's not the whole story, though, I don't think. Our bodies are adaptive and complex. 3. There are no silver bullets and anybody peddling one is probably wrong (not to say they are entirely without merit.) 4. Nutrition is a science that is not nearly as well understood as most people think.
    - crusso 13y ago
      Actually, we know a great deal about weight gain in the micro sense that is explained by insulin. Jeez, point after point you've made are answered in that Taube youtube link in this thread. You could have your answers if you just clicked the link, opened your mind, and thought about what the guy said. At the end of the day, here's what I know from going on and off low-carb eating for the last ten years. I eat carbs, I crave carbs, I binge eat, I gain lots of weight. Contrarily: I stop eating carbs, I lose the cravings, I eat moderately, salads even look satisfying, I lose weight. Oh, for those of you who are fans of the Security Now podcast, Steve Gibson went into geeky detail in his switch to a low carb diet: https://www.grc.com/health/lowcarb-podcasts.htm https://www.grc.com/health/lowcarb-podcasts.htm

by crusso 13y ago

encoderer 13y ago

Maybe I didn't understand it, you tell me. You're suggesting (with scoff) that driving fewer miles will naturally reduce risk of accident, so by putting less gas in the car you'll force yourself to drive fewer miles. So you tell me what I'm missing there. Because as interpreted that's a pretty poor analogy. More importantly, I'm not trying to be a critic on your writing style, which is why I have 1 sentence about the analogy followed by paragraphs about your larger point. Looking at the mental portion of this, the learning to eat less and better, your comments about atkins..."tend to eat less" reminds me of exactly what I say about my strategy of "intermittent fasting." (Which is a phrase I didn't learn until recently, well after I've lost the weight). What I mean is, in both cases, behavioral changes lead to eating less. And I firmly, 100% believe that THAT is the primary mechanism that worked for me. Not changes to insulin levels effecting metabolism. But specifically: I eat far less than I used to. Far less. And THAT is why I've lost weight. And intermittent fasting helps me to accomplish that the way Atkins does to followers of that diet, ditto Paleo, ditto the Cookie Diet, etc. Most importantly: I hope everybody acknowledges that there's mountains of contradictory research and a lot of complicated science here that nobody really understands. All we know for sure is what has worked for us, not even always why, and we are on very thin ice advocating to others what they should do.

crusso 13y ago
From what you've posted in this thread, I gather that you have not taken the time to understand insulin, what it is, and how low carb diets affect insulin, carbohydrate cravings and cell metabolism. First link briefly covers the insulin response second link is general information regarding insulin. http://www.spinalhealth.net/insulin.html http://www.spinalhealth.net/insulin.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin See the Gary Taube youtube link elsewhere in this thread for a great deal more information. mountains of contradictory research Not really. There's mountains of research and then public policy officials and non-scientist nutritionists that have let the food industry provide guidelines and cheap foods that aren't really good for us. As Gary Taube points out in the video link, the science is old news. The puzzling thing is why the science has been ignored for so long.
- encoderer 13y ago
  And from what you've posted in the thread, I gather you believe nutrition and weight gain or loss can be explained in the micro sense by individual things like insulin. Most of what I know about sugar, simple carbs in general, and insulin is what I learned from the just-OK book http://www.amazon.com/Sugar-Blues-William-Dufty/dp/0446343129 http://www.amazon.com/Sugar-Blues-William-Dufty/dp/044634312... But most of what I've learned about weight gain/loss and nutrition I've learned from books and research that look at the subject from a macro level. The summation of everything I've read on the subject -- and I read a lot through my year long experience of losing weigh and changing almost entirely how I thought about food -- and my own experiences make me believe firmly that this is primarily an I/O issue. And as much as you say "the science is settled and I am right" it's contradicted by a lot of smart people who study this and admit essentially 'the science of nutrition is immature and in many times conclusions are contradictory.' The most recent time I heard that was just last week in the same Pollan NPR interview I mentioned elsewhere. (Though i think this was a re-broadcast, not sure the original broadcast date) To be clear, here's my take: 1. Primarily an I/O issue. Everything else is a distant 2nd place. 2. How much of the equation is I/O? I don't know. 75%? 50%? It's not the whole story, though, I don't think. Our bodies are adaptive and complex. 3. There are no silver bullets and anybody peddling one is probably wrong (not to say they are entirely without merit.) 4. Nutrition is a science that is not nearly as well understood as most people think.
  - crusso 13y ago
    Actually, we know a great deal about weight gain in the micro sense that is explained by insulin. Jeez, point after point you've made are answered in that Taube youtube link in this thread. You could have your answers if you just clicked the link, opened your mind, and thought about what the guy said. At the end of the day, here's what I know from going on and off low-carb eating for the last ten years. I eat carbs, I crave carbs, I binge eat, I gain lots of weight. Contrarily: I stop eating carbs, I lose the cravings, I eat moderately, salads even look satisfying, I lose weight. Oh, for those of you who are fans of the Security Now podcast, Steve Gibson went into geeky detail in his switch to a low carb diet: https://www.grc.com/health/lowcarb-podcasts.htm https://www.grc.com/health/lowcarb-podcasts.htm