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This is a fantastic primer on how to fit clothes. Since taking care to get well-fitted, nice clothes, my confidence has skyrocketed and I seem to get more respe

• stuartmemo 13y ago
  This comment is everything I don't want to be.
  • pvnick 13y ago
    Really, why is that? I don't believe I said anything controversial. I personally haven't met anybody who, given the choice, prefers looking like a disheveled slob.
    • mayanksinghal 13y ago
      For one, people who wear sneakers often do it because they are comfortable. To equate them to high school teenagers if they are not personal trainers is quite unfair. You are free to advocate a more professional look, but if you get disrespectful on the way, people are going to hate your stance for it.
      • pvnick 13y ago
        I stand by that statement more-so than any of the other ones, and I'm sorry if you found it offensive. Sneakers have no place in a professional environment. There are plenty of comfortable options for professional footwear.
        • foobarbazqux 13y ago
          > Sneakers have no place in a professional environment. Tell that to Billy G, Stevie J, and just about every programmer that works for IBM, Microsoft, Apple, Intel, and Google. I'm guessing you don't really know that many programmers that work at mainly tech companies.
          • peterwwillis 13y ago
            Many tech companies do not have a professional environment.
            • foobarbazqux 13y ago
              Isn't a professional simply somebody who is paid wages? Isn't a professional environment simply the typical environment in which a given class of professionals chooses or prefers to work? Are there professional garbage truck drivers?
              • peterwwillis 13y ago
                Yes, yes, yes. Many tech companies don't have the kind of environment professionals like to work in, because they foster an environment so casual it borders on 4th of july drunken barbeque.
                • foobarbazqux 13y ago
                  Why would a company have an environment that its employees didn't like to work in? Or did you mean employees from other companies?
    • dbecker 13y ago
      I personally haven't met anybody who, given the choice, prefers looking like a disheveled slob. I prefer wearing gym shorts to slacks. If that preference qualifies as "wanting to look like a disheveled slob," then a large fraction of the population wants to look like a disheveled slob. More generally, I prefer not to worry about things like brands of clothing. It's fine that others do. I'd agree you didn't say anything controversial or offensive. But, fashion isn't for everyone.
      • coldtea 13y ago
        >I prefer wearing gym shorts to slacks. If that preference qualifies as "wanting to look like a disheveled slob," then a large fraction of the population wants to look like a disheveled slob. I don't think there's any argument about that. Any man, over 20-22, that wears "gym shorts" casually looks like a disheveled slob.
      • lifeformed 13y ago
        Well fitting clothes are comfortable too. You don't need to get brand name items either. There's nothing wrong with not caring about fashion - indeed, people shouldn't be judging others negatively just because of fashion. However, why not also look good? It can benefit the social aspect of your life a lot, by giving you some added confidence. So if you're looking to improve that part of your life, dressing well is a good place to start.
    • foobarbazqux 13y ago
      > I personally haven't met anybody who, given the choice, prefers looking like a disheveled slob. Not calling people names, whether or not it's due to their clothing choices, is going to earn you more respect than the clothes you personally like to wear.
  • encoderer 13y ago
    That's too bad. I think it's very good advice and mirrors my own experience.
  • peterwwillis 13y ago
    Nobody really cares what you want to be, but thanks for using HN like it's your twitter account.
    • gruseom 13y ago
      I care, because it matters to me that there are others who feel the way I do. Please don't make sarcastic personal comments on HN.
  • gruseom 13y ago
    I'm with you. An article like this shooting to the top of HN is a consequence of the rise in status of programmers. Probably nothing can be done about it, but an article on how to conform is the antithesis of hacker culture.
    • Cthulhu_ 13y ago
      In what I perceive as "hacker culture", wearing neat and properly-fitted clothes is anything but "conforming".
      • gruseom 13y ago
        That's something different. By "conforming" I meant "conforming to the mainstream", which is the type of conforming the OP (and the root comment) is about. (Edit: I agree that subcultures have their own conformity rules.)
        • deleted 13y ago
          [deleted]
        • redbad 13y ago
          I don't know if you've observed normal people lately, but wearing well-fitted clothes is pretty clearly not "the mainstream".
          • gruseom 13y ago
            In terms of cultural values, it clearly is. Hence the connection to "career advancement". Please don't be personally sarcastic on HN.
            • redbad 13y ago
              Shared cultural values in the US definitely do not include well-fitted clothes, outside of niche markets like fashion or design, in major cities like New York. Please don't meta-moderate my contributions to this community.
  • aeze 13y ago
    Why?
  • coldtea 13y ago
    Elegant? Because a t-shirt with cola and burger residue is what characterises a hacker and an independent spirit, right? I don't see how taking the time to have, say, a nice desk, or car is OK, but nice clothes are somehow beneath us.
    • tehwebguy 13y ago
      > Because a t-shirt with cola and burger residue is what characterises a hacker and an independent spirit, right? Preferring a t-shirt doesn't mean you don't care about food stains on your clothes. I wear high quality t-shirts, jeans and sneakers that look, fit and feel great (to me). They aren't fancy, but niceness seems pretty subjective. My wardrobe is nice to me, maybe not to anyone else. Personally I gauge the niceness of my desk and car by their utility and enjoyability, same with my clothes. There are certain utilitarian requirements for each, it's pretty much about personal opinion after that.
      • coldtea 13y ago
        >I wear high quality t-shirts, jeans and sneakers that look, fit and feel great (to me). They aren't fancy, but niceness seems pretty subjective. Actually it's pretty objective within a culture. Might not be objective in the gravity and T || F = T way, but it's objective in the cultural sense. To the degree that you get pretty consistent results from studies where subjects are shown photos of people or stuff to judge for "niceness".
• yolesaber 13y ago
  To be fair, plimsolls such as Keds make for fine casual wear and can often be integrated into nice outfits, so long as you take care with regards to the sizing and coloration.
• Dewie 13y ago
  > This is a great way for career advancement - ever notice managers are generally better-dressed (ignoring Zuckerberg, the exception to this rule)? Well, if you want to be a manager.
• EllaMentry 13y ago
  I would like to provide a counter-point. Disclaimer: I am a girl... I hate wearing "fitted" clothes and shoes...god how I hate shoes...I have spent the last several years of my professional career wearing flip flops or sandals around the office. I have never worn pants suit, in the winter I opt for a hoodie, tshirt and jeans - and generally substitute the jeans for a skirt in the summer. As a result, I am biased towards people who wear suits (especially with ties!) - The question in the back of my mind is "what are they trying to hide?". (It should be noted that these observations are from corporate land where I no longer reside.) I have met people who believed that simply because they were in a suit they should be listened to...even when it was clear they had no knowledge about the situation at hand - this tends to apply to project managers and the like. When I met somebody in t-shirt and jeans I tended to get along with them, they tended to be knowledgeable and could stand their ground. I have since moved out of corporate land, and into an environment where tshirt and jeans is the norm - and these people "get shit done" - their career development and self esteem comes from the fact that they are the best at what they do...not because "I look good this morning" You shouldn't get respect from the clothes you wear...you should demand respect from the skills you have.
  • pvnick 13y ago
    You make some good points, and I probably should have made mentioned in my original post about how I too prefer wearing comfortable clothes when appropriate (I don't sit around my house in a suit like Barney Stinson). For example, I'm currently lounging around my kitchen in a t shirt and gym shorts. But when I need to be around people, especially at work, school, and social events, I personally feel more confident when my clothes fit better, are free from holes, and I'm wearing my nice shoes. Also, for example, the other day I organized a "Restore the Fourth" rally for my home town. As the organizer, I felt it necessary to look nice and presentable because people generally respect nicer-dressed people, and I knew I would be interviewed for the evening news. If I had worn sneakers, gym shorts, an ironic t shirt, and a neck beard, things would not have run nearly as smoothly as they did.
    • jrokisky 13y ago
      Have you ever intentionally dressed like a slob? I think it's a great way to build confidence because most of the interactions you'll have with people will start with them assuming negative things about you. When you see them realize that those negative assumptions were unfounded it I think it can help you un-link confidence and clothing.
• leoedin 13y ago
  Your choice of dress depends on both your age and the environment you're in. I definitely wouldn't wear trainers (sneakers) to work, but equally I also wouldn't wear anything other than trainers to certain clubs. It's very easy to look over-dressed and pretentious if you're 18. Equally it's very easy to look like an idiot trying to wear teenager's fashion if you're 30 and cruising about in high tops. I absolutely agree that fit is crucial for clothes. However, everyone has a different context and you really don't want to look woefully out of place. Sometimes that means wearing (nice) trainers.
• el_fuser 13y ago
  I tend to avoid places that equate career advancement with becoming a manager.
• shiven 13y ago
  Conform much? Judge more[1]? If you are in a profession that requires a "uniform" then I may have some empathy for your ideas. Otherwise, I am mentally unable to grasp the need for this thinly-veiled, vapid, conformist outlook regarding external appearances. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6003097 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6003097
  • pvnick 13y ago
    Anti-conformity to the "mainstream" seems to be a compulsion, or even an addiction, with self-described hackers. Why not maintain the hacker ideals of innovation and disruption while hacking others' perceptions of you to make yourself seem more trustworthy and respectable? You will surely wind up with someone of the sort as your boss. That's just the way the world works.
    • shiven 13y ago
      Anti-conformity to the "mainstream" seems to be a compulsion, or even an addiction, with self-described hackers. You are correct. Is there a point though? Why not maintain the hacker ideals of innovation and disruption while hacking others' perceptions of you to make yourself seem more trustworthy and respectable? Precisely. And this cuts both ways. Hope you can see that. You will surely wind up with someone of the sort as your boss. That's just the way the world works. Sure, hence HN, YC and the audience here that is actively striving towards being their own boss. Actively changing the way the world works as part of their striving for freedom from such bosses!
  • alex_doom 13y ago
    There's nothing there that says you have to wear a suit and tie to work. It's a guide for wearing clothes so you don't look like a bowl of oatmeal. Rules are always made to be broken once you understand how the system works. Male fashion doesn't mean you have to wear slacks and button down shirts. I wear jeans, sneakers and tshirts every day. But I've learned how to buy clothes that look like they fit me and less like a cholo gangster.
• vinceguidry 13y ago
  > managers are generally better-dressed (ignoring Zuckerberg, the exception to this rule)? Managers dress better because they have a softer skill set that depends more on perception than hard results. Zuckerberg is a hacker, with a hacker's mindset. That's why he doesn't dress up.