4 ms·

> It now allows you to switch between windows of the same application on the same desktop which has to be in the running for the most useless UI function ever d

by nnq 13y ago

> It now allows you to switch between windows of the same application on the same desktop which has to be in the running for the most useless UI function ever devised. Simply asking... WHY on earth would you find this useless?! Agree, you wouldn't need it if you just had the ability to select a "don't combine taskbar buttons" option (last time I checked Unity didn't have this) - the first option that I select on Windows 7/8. To me different windows of the same application are technically "different apps/task" and I want them to show separately on the taskbar or at least have an easy way of switching between them. The whole "task based interface" current is the biggest UI/X fail in recent history imho, and a misnomer on top of it - applications aren't task, if I have two different web apps in two different windows (or simply two different sets of task specific tabs), they are two completely different tasks to me, I don't want them grouped by application goddamit! Even philosophically, in the "UNIX way" tasks emerge when one combines the use of a number of small applications to get a particular task done, while in the "Mac/Windows way" of "big feature-full applications" an application can be used to work on multiple task simultaneously in different windows. 1 to 1 mapping of apps to tasks and the "combine windows on taskbar" philosophy only apply to very naive and inexperienced users that don't understand even 10% of the potential of the "tool" sitting in front of them, and they should not be catered for, they should be pushed and stressed to learn more whether they like it or not, because they can learn more, and they will inevitably get better at whatever they do by learning more - even Microsoft gets this (they know that if you are forced to learn more about their products and by learning more about them you become more productive with them, you will grow more dependent on them, whereas if something is "very easy" but limited, you'll be able to switch to a competing product that could give you even a minor increase in productivity at any time), even if would be suicide for them to admit it and put it in any marketing material since they market themselves as "easiest to use" :) ...overall, I feel like Unity simply cherry picked the worst features from Windows 7 and Mac OS GUIs. At least the Windows GUI can be very easily customized in all relevant aspects and allows me to be very productive with it, while the Mac OS one is well polished and tested and after I get used to it has a nice "flow". If you want to build an "opinionated" GUI, first make sure you are at least as competent as Apple's UI guys are, if not, just drop it make something clean and easily customizable with a Right Click -> Properties on any element so I don't have to hunt down a controll panel that, for Unity, doesn't even have the options I care about! ...thank god for KDE and XFCE! EDIT+: added a couple paragraphs

spindritf 13y ago
> if I have two different web apps in two different windows (or simply two different sets of task specific tabs), they are two completely different tasks to me, I don't want them grouped by application goddamit! I don't really use webapps in that way but you can integrate them with Ubuntu directly and then they get their own icon[1]. You can even use system controls to manipulate options within those apps to a certain extent. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUTNxi6b-hw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUTNxi6b-hw
saurik 13y ago
> if I have two different web apps in two different windows (or simply two different sets of task specific tabs) I would continue the argument and say that having "tabs" be a concept related to grouping together behaviors of specific applications into self-contained task units was an anti-pattern that we got used to only because window managers failed to innovate and application-specific tab containers was then a simple fix that could evolve from multiple-document interfaces: there is no good reason why I shouldn't be able to take a Terminal tab and a Chrome tab and have them be part of the same window.
- jamii 13y ago
  Xmonad has a 'Tabbed' layout that does just that. I'm planning a tiling window manager for gnome 3 that takes the idea further, treating switching to a tab and opening a URI with a UI similar to Firefox smartbar.
  - aristidb 13y ago
    Maybe you should look at i3, which allows you arbitrarily nesting tabs and tilings. (I myself use XMonad with tabs grafted onto it, but that's mostly because as a Haskell fanboy I can't not use XMonad.)
    - mateuszf 13y ago
      I have tried lot of window managers (including i3), but still the best one in my opinion is ion3. Now discontinued, but I still use it. I think it is years ahead of other window environments. The best features of ion3 are in my opinion: - dynamic tiling with vertical/horizontal splits and tabs - easily extensible using lua including information panel (I used it to display useful info e.g. bitcoin prices) - query module allowing to very quickly switch to other windows/workspace or bring any window to currently focused region - query module can be extended to query different sources e.g. bookmarks or locate. I can even imagine adding hood like abilities to the system - query module also supports vim input mode - very good commands support, one can easily configure keyboard and mouse behaviour, including emacs like combos, and moving, dragging windows actions - can be effectively used using both keyboard and mouse - this model of dynamic tiling makes it very easy to move/resize windows using mouse. One can press some key and resize window using mouse without trying to hit few pixels of the edge of the window. Window can be resized instantly and precisely without any mental effort - both tiling and floating modes supported - scrapbook support - there can be panels shown using single key combination with many application tabs in it - accessible from everywhere - session support - one can start wm with already running applications on preconfigured workspaces There are probably other features I have forgotten. I am really sad that Tuomo Valkonen (the wm creator) left the project. There are some other programs that in my opinion didn't get the credit they deserve (like ecco pro) and then other projects have to painfully reinvent them.

by nnq 13y ago

spindritf 13y ago

> if I have two different web apps in two different windows (or simply two different sets of task specific tabs), they are two completely different tasks to me, I don't want them grouped by application goddamit! I don't really use webapps in that way but you can integrate them with Ubuntu directly and then they get their own icon[1]. You can even use system controls to manipulate options within those apps to a certain extent. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUTNxi6b-hw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUTNxi6b-hw

saurik 13y ago

> if I have two different web apps in two different windows (or simply two different sets of task specific tabs) I would continue the argument and say that having "tabs" be a concept related to grouping together behaviors of specific applications into self-contained task units was an anti-pattern that we got used to only because window managers failed to innovate and application-specific tab containers was then a simple fix that could evolve from multiple-document interfaces: there is no good reason why I shouldn't be able to take a Terminal tab and a Chrome tab and have them be part of the same window.

jamii 13y ago
Xmonad has a 'Tabbed' layout that does just that. I'm planning a tiling window manager for gnome 3 that takes the idea further, treating switching to a tab and opening a URI with a UI similar to Firefox smartbar.
- aristidb 13y ago
  Maybe you should look at i3, which allows you arbitrarily nesting tabs and tilings. (I myself use XMonad with tabs grafted onto it, but that's mostly because as a Haskell fanboy I can't not use XMonad.)
  - mateuszf 13y ago
    I have tried lot of window managers (including i3), but still the best one in my opinion is ion3. Now discontinued, but I still use it. I think it is years ahead of other window environments. The best features of ion3 are in my opinion: - dynamic tiling with vertical/horizontal splits and tabs - easily extensible using lua including information panel (I used it to display useful info e.g. bitcoin prices) - query module allowing to very quickly switch to other windows/workspace or bring any window to currently focused region - query module can be extended to query different sources e.g. bookmarks or locate. I can even imagine adding hood like abilities to the system - query module also supports vim input mode - very good commands support, one can easily configure keyboard and mouse behaviour, including emacs like combos, and moving, dragging windows actions - can be effectively used using both keyboard and mouse - this model of dynamic tiling makes it very easy to move/resize windows using mouse. One can press some key and resize window using mouse without trying to hit few pixels of the edge of the window. Window can be resized instantly and precisely without any mental effort - both tiling and floating modes supported - scrapbook support - there can be panels shown using single key combination with many application tabs in it - accessible from everywhere - session support - one can start wm with already running applications on preconfigured workspaces There are probably other features I have forgotten. I am really sad that Tuomo Valkonen (the wm creator) left the project. There are some other programs that in my opinion didn't get the credit they deserve (like ecco pro) and then other projects have to painfully reinvent them.