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There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one mak

There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers and then you cash in on guilt.

paulgb 18y ago
While the laws may have that effect, I doubt that's why we have the laws that we do. There are a ton of examples like speeding, gambling, and recreational drug use where laws are not uniformly enforced. I think the cause is a combination of a slow-moving bureaucratic system and a mentality of trusting the discretion of judges and law enforcement in knowing where to draw the line. I'm not saying that broad laws with selective enforcement is the right way to go, just that the cause is probably not a conspiracy or even an uncoordinated effort to give the government more power.
tptacek 18y ago
This is less an interesting comment than it is a My Chemical Romance song. I also note that you've ignored a few of the other powers governments have, like deciding how much fat a steak needs to have before it can be called "Prime", or generating statistics on the number of businesses operating in 2003 with 50-99 employees.
- nazgulnarsil 18y ago
  I won't deny that Rand was totally Emo. But regulatory power boils down to the power to imprison those who refuse to comply.
  - aswanson 18y ago
    Know what? You run a red light and crash into my car or start firing a pistol in random directions because you don't feel like complying, your ass needs to be imprisoned.
    - nazgulnarsil 18y ago
      did you recently learn how to read?
      - aswanson 18y ago
        The point I was trying to make, which for whatever reason seems to escape you, is that a regulation need not be an unnecessary creation of a malevolent government, as dictated by your original quote. Nor is the power of enforcement of such regulation with imprisonment necessarily bad, as you allude in the gp of this post. Indeed, if it cannot be enforced there is no reason to create it. Hope that clears things up a bit for you.
        tptacek 18y ago
        Libertarians aren't anarchists.
        nazgulnarsil 17y ago
        um...I think you missed the point of the original. The point is that people presume that government is benevolent. Doing things for the public good is their job description after all. This presumption is false, as when you examine the incentives for government you find tendencies directly inimical to the public good.
halo 18y ago
For those who are considering replying, that's a (uncited) quote from Atlas Shrugged.
ubernostrum 18y ago
"Hereby it is manifest, that during the time men live without a common Power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called Warre; and such a warre, as is of every man, against every man." (snip) "To this warre of every man against every man, this also is consequent; that nothing can be Unjust. The notions of Right and Wrong, Justice and Injustice have there no place. Where there is no common Power, there is no Law: where no Law, no Injustice. Force, and Fraud, are in warre the two Cardinall vertues. Justice, and Injustice are none of the Faculties neither of the Body, nor Mind. If they were, they might be in a man that were alone in the world, as well as his Senses, and Passions. They are Qualities, that relate to men in Society, not in Solitude. It is consequent also to the same condition, that there be no Propriety, no Dominion, no Mine and Thine distinct; but onely that to be every mans that he can get; and for so long, as he can keep it. And thus much for the ill condition, which man by meer Nature is actually placed in; though with a possibility to come out of it, consisting partly in the Passions, partly in his Reason."

paulgb 18y ago

While the laws may have that effect, I doubt that's why we have the laws that we do. There are a ton of examples like speeding, gambling, and recreational drug use where laws are not uniformly enforced. I think the cause is a combination of a slow-moving bureaucratic system and a mentality of trusting the discretion of judges and law enforcement in knowing where to draw the line. I'm not saying that broad laws with selective enforcement is the right way to go, just that the cause is probably not a conspiracy or even an uncoordinated effort to give the government more power.

tptacek 18y ago

This is less an interesting comment than it is a My Chemical Romance song. I also note that you've ignored a few of the other powers governments have, like deciding how much fat a steak needs to have before it can be called "Prime", or generating statistics on the number of businesses operating in 2003 with 50-99 employees.

nazgulnarsil 18y ago
I won't deny that Rand was totally Emo. But regulatory power boils down to the power to imprison those who refuse to comply.
- aswanson 18y ago
  Know what? You run a red light and crash into my car or start firing a pistol in random directions because you don't feel like complying, your ass needs to be imprisoned.
  - nazgulnarsil 18y ago
    did you recently learn how to read?
    - aswanson 18y ago
      The point I was trying to make, which for whatever reason seems to escape you, is that a regulation need not be an unnecessary creation of a malevolent government, as dictated by your original quote. Nor is the power of enforcement of such regulation with imprisonment necessarily bad, as you allude in the gp of this post. Indeed, if it cannot be enforced there is no reason to create it. Hope that clears things up a bit for you.
      - tptacek 18y ago
        Libertarians aren't anarchists.
      - nazgulnarsil 17y ago
        um...I think you missed the point of the original. The point is that people presume that government is benevolent. Doing things for the public good is their job description after all. This presumption is false, as when you examine the incentives for government you find tendencies directly inimical to the public good.

halo 18y ago

For those who are considering replying, that's a (uncited) quote from Atlas Shrugged.

ubernostrum 18y ago

"Hereby it is manifest, that during the time men live without a common Power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called Warre; and such a warre, as is of every man, against every man." (snip) "To this warre of every man against every man, this also is consequent; that nothing can be Unjust. The notions of Right and Wrong, Justice and Injustice have there no place. Where there is no common Power, there is no Law: where no Law, no Injustice. Force, and Fraud, are in warre the two Cardinall vertues. Justice, and Injustice are none of the Faculties neither of the Body, nor Mind. If they were, they might be in a man that were alone in the world, as well as his Senses, and Passions. They are Qualities, that relate to men in Society, not in Solitude. It is consequent also to the same condition, that there be no Propriety, no Dominion, no Mine and Thine distinct; but onely that to be every mans that he can get; and for so long, as he can keep it. And thus much for the ill condition, which man by meer Nature is actually placed in; though with a possibility to come out of it, consisting partly in the Passions, partly in his Reason."