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If terrorism were 1000 times worse than it is in the US it would not justify this activity In light of the fact that the Patriot Act allows this, you are a nai

If terrorism were 1000 times worse than it is in the US it would not justify this activity In light of the fact that the Patriot Act allows this, you are a naive person - it's no big deal but just acknowledge the reality. The comparison to tyranny is absurd. This has been going on for 15 years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software) The fact that you don't know that isn't my fault. Get with the times. The question is why are you so naive to act surprised to hear about this? You really think Auschwitz or the Gulag is the next step from where we are now?

dasil003 13y ago
The Patriot Act is a reactionary cowardly piece of legislation. The fact that it is law in no way makes it equally definitive of the nation as the constitution. I'm not sure why you equate my outrage to ignorance. I can set you up as a complementary straw man by asking why long-term human rights abuses by your government cause you to automatically approve of their actions? As to Auschwitz, well, that's why I said "stepping stones" not, "next thing you know Obama's going to grow a toothbrush mustache and send the jews off to labor camps". The point is that this kind of unbridled power of global surveillance, supposedly checked through secret courts but which are accountable to no one outside the innermost circles of power is guaranteed to corrupt in the long run. Furthermore, when the tyranny starts, you won't even know about it because it will be done in secret with explicit legal approval. Give your "it can't happen here" attitude I find it incredibly ironic that you would call me naive.
- trestles 13y ago
  My point is that, if you perceive that the capabilities of PRISM are new and that the behavior that the NSA has engaged in for 10 years are new and you are outraged by it (which was the point of the original article and I assume is the point of your stepping stone argument), then I think you are naive. This behavior, the FISA courts, etc... are part of the Patriot Act and Carnivore has been known about for > 10 years and is IE3 type technology. I actually probably see the world much more sinisterly than you do (hence the contradiction of the Madison quote). Snowden probably can't get asylum not because of what he has said but the can of worms of what is in his laptop. Oh well.... The fact that you are trying to cast me as an apologist for ' long-term human rights abuses by your government cause you to automatically approve of their actions'; I think the stupidest thing America has ever done is invoke the traditional war-machine (esp drones and block sites) against the Middle East.

dasil003 13y ago

The Patriot Act is a reactionary cowardly piece of legislation. The fact that it is law in no way makes it equally definitive of the nation as the constitution. I'm not sure why you equate my outrage to ignorance. I can set you up as a complementary straw man by asking why long-term human rights abuses by your government cause you to automatically approve of their actions? As to Auschwitz, well, that's why I said "stepping stones" not, "next thing you know Obama's going to grow a toothbrush mustache and send the jews off to labor camps". The point is that this kind of unbridled power of global surveillance, supposedly checked through secret courts but which are accountable to no one outside the innermost circles of power is guaranteed to corrupt in the long run. Furthermore, when the tyranny starts, you won't even know about it because it will be done in secret with explicit legal approval. Give your "it can't happen here" attitude I find it incredibly ironic that you would call me naive.

trestles 13y ago
My point is that, if you perceive that the capabilities of PRISM are new and that the behavior that the NSA has engaged in for 10 years are new and you are outraged by it (which was the point of the original article and I assume is the point of your stepping stone argument), then I think you are naive. This behavior, the FISA courts, etc... are part of the Patriot Act and Carnivore has been known about for > 10 years and is IE3 type technology. I actually probably see the world much more sinisterly than you do (hence the contradiction of the Madison quote). Snowden probably can't get asylum not because of what he has said but the can of worms of what is in his laptop. Oh well.... The fact that you are trying to cast me as an apologist for ' long-term human rights abuses by your government cause you to automatically approve of their actions'; I think the stupidest thing America has ever done is invoke the traditional war-machine (esp drones and block sites) against the Middle East.