5 ms·

Response to NSA scandal: German Government moves away from data retention

112 points by lukashed 13y ago

mtgx 13y ago
Good thing elections are coming soon. Merkel must be freaking out about it, and willing to do anything.
- hellrich 13y ago
  Yes, it changed the name to "Mindestspeicherfrist" - "minimum storage time"...
- threeseed 13y ago
  Yes. Privacy policies are absolutely a top consideration for most voters. Definitely not jobs, minimum wage or the perilous state of the EU countries.
  - manmal 13y ago
    Well privacy policy is something people consider to be actually in the hands of politicians, while promises of job security are eyed suspiciously (rightfully). If by perilous states you mean Greece, Italy, Spain - do you really think German voters give a damn?
    - wwhitman 13y ago
      I think he was being sarcastic.
      - flyinRyan 13y ago
        It seems to me like the GP got that and responded appropriately.
fforw 13y ago
Not really. They have been supporters for "Vorratsdatenspeicherung" / "stock data saving" / data retention for quite some time and now realize that the populace is not amused by the NSA shenanigans. So in their infinite wisdom, they replaced it with "Mindestspeicherfristen" / "minimum storage limit" / data retention.
- Sujan 13y ago
  Exactly. It's pure spin, the content stayed exactly the same, they just replaced some words. Apparently done well enough, to confuse even Spiegel Online. Here is some reporting on it: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnetzpolitik.org%2F2013%2Fspiegel-online-ente-union-gibt-vorratsdatenspeicherung-nicht-auf-benennt-sie-nur-um%2F http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%... http://netzpolitik.org/2013/spiegel-online-ente-union-gibt-vorratsdatenspeicherung-nicht-auf-benennt-sie-nur-um/ http://netzpolitik.org/2013/spiegel-online-ente-union-gibt-v... (German)
  - hwh 13y ago
    It's also important to note that this shift in wording predates the whole Snowden/NSA story. It is conveniently interpret in its light, now that the NSA in political discourse. Also note that Germany is facing federal elections in just a few months...
  - blots 13y ago
    Why, even the Spiegel article says right at the beginning that it's just playing with words for the sake of elections: "But for this change of course to be more than just an election ploy, the government should however advocate a change in the EU Directive in Brussels. Which prescribes a six-month storage of traffic data - and the Union confirms in other parts of its election manifesto that it holds onto the fundamental goal to implement the Directive. "Minimum retention period" is spoken in the Union for two years already - and means nothing but data retention."
- eliasmacpherson 13y ago
  A lot of US users seem to be under the impression that the EU is much better at protecting privacy. In some ways it is, and in other ways it is not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive This has been in force since 2006. The storage is required by law. "member states will have to store citizens' telecommunications data for six to 24 months stipulating a maximum time period. Under the directive the police and security agencies will be able to request access to details such as IP address and time of use of every email, phone call and text message sent or received. A permission to access the information will be granted only by a court."
lukashed 13y ago
Here's the official directive: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32006L0024:EN:HTML http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:...
peterwiese 13y ago
DATA RETENTION OF 6 MONTHS IS AN EU DIRECTIVE. EVERY EUROPEAN MEMBER STATE HAS TO PASS THIS AS A NATIONAL LAW OR ELSE THEY WILL BE PENALIZED. ALSO, AFTER THE TRANSPOSOTION PERIOD OF THE DIRECTIVE, IT'S DIRECTLY APPLICABLE IN CASE NO NATIONAL LAW SERVING TO TRANSPOSE THE DIRECTIVE WAS PASSED. ERGO, WHAT THE CDU/CSU DID IS LEGALLY MEANINGLESS!!!
speedracr 13y ago
Incorrectness of linked article's headline was pointed out already. Also, this is not the "German Government", it's the CDU/CSU conservative party's election agenda. Yes, they are the party of the chancellor, but it's obvious that a whole ton of proposals buried in the election agenda never see the light of day despite the party winning a majority and having the Chancellor elect. So even IF the CDU/CSU decided to move away from data retention in their election agenda, it would remain to be seen if this translated into actual laws. And since they didn't even move away...
LinaLauneBaer 13y ago
Google's translation of the abstract is a bit off. It is missing an important sentence. Translation from Google: For years, the CDU and CSU have fought for the retention - now they want nothing more to know. Under the impact of the NSA spying scandal they replace the bad word in the election program. My translation: Election year in Germany: Horst Seehofer, leader of the CSU party has devoted himself to data privacy protection. He is even thinking about moving away from data detention to fight crimes. Leading interior politicians from the (much bigger) sister party (CDU) are irritated. The fact that many politicians from the bigger sister party is important IMHO. Without the CDU the CSU is just marginally above 5%. Of course it is somewhat surprising to see the CSU announcing this. The CSU is considered more pro surveillance and data retention than the CDU. The CSU can only be voted for in Bavaria. People in Bavaria tend to be more conservative. The CSU get usually more than 50% of the votes in Bavaria. The CDU can be voted for in every other state - except in Bavaria. The CDU and CSU form a "bigger party" and call themselves "Union". It is not seen as a much more volatile coalition between let's say the FDP and CDU/CSU. CDU/CSU win together and loose together.

112 points by lukashed 13y ago

mtgx 13y ago

Good thing elections are coming soon. Merkel must be freaking out about it, and willing to do anything.

hellrich 13y ago
Yes, it changed the name to "Mindestspeicherfrist" - "minimum storage time"...
threeseed 13y ago
Yes. Privacy policies are absolutely a top consideration for most voters. Definitely not jobs, minimum wage or the perilous state of the EU countries.
- manmal 13y ago
  Well privacy policy is something people consider to be actually in the hands of politicians, while promises of job security are eyed suspiciously (rightfully). If by perilous states you mean Greece, Italy, Spain - do you really think German voters give a damn?
  - wwhitman 13y ago
    I think he was being sarcastic.
    - flyinRyan 13y ago
      It seems to me like the GP got that and responded appropriately.

fforw 13y ago

Not really. They have been supporters for "Vorratsdatenspeicherung" / "stock data saving" / data retention for quite some time and now realize that the populace is not amused by the NSA shenanigans. So in their infinite wisdom, they replaced it with "Mindestspeicherfristen" / "minimum storage limit" / data retention.

Sujan 13y ago
Exactly. It's pure spin, the content stayed exactly the same, they just replaced some words. Apparently done well enough, to confuse even Spiegel Online. Here is some reporting on it: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnetzpolitik.org%2F2013%2Fspiegel-online-ente-union-gibt-vorratsdatenspeicherung-nicht-auf-benennt-sie-nur-um%2F http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%... http://netzpolitik.org/2013/spiegel-online-ente-union-gibt-vorratsdatenspeicherung-nicht-auf-benennt-sie-nur-um/ http://netzpolitik.org/2013/spiegel-online-ente-union-gibt-v... (German)
- hwh 13y ago
  It's also important to note that this shift in wording predates the whole Snowden/NSA story. It is conveniently interpret in its light, now that the NSA in political discourse. Also note that Germany is facing federal elections in just a few months...
- blots 13y ago
  Why, even the Spiegel article says right at the beginning that it's just playing with words for the sake of elections: "But for this change of course to be more than just an election ploy, the government should however advocate a change in the EU Directive in Brussels. Which prescribes a six-month storage of traffic data - and the Union confirms in other parts of its election manifesto that it holds onto the fundamental goal to implement the Directive. "Minimum retention period" is spoken in the Union for two years already - and means nothing but data retention."
eliasmacpherson 13y ago
A lot of US users seem to be under the impression that the EU is much better at protecting privacy. In some ways it is, and in other ways it is not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive This has been in force since 2006. The storage is required by law. "member states will have to store citizens' telecommunications data for six to 24 months stipulating a maximum time period. Under the directive the police and security agencies will be able to request access to details such as IP address and time of use of every email, phone call and text message sent or received. A permission to access the information will be granted only by a court."

lukashed 13y ago

Here's the official directive: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32006L0024:EN:HTML http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:...

peterwiese 13y ago

DATA RETENTION OF 6 MONTHS IS AN EU DIRECTIVE. EVERY EUROPEAN MEMBER STATE HAS TO PASS THIS AS A NATIONAL LAW OR ELSE THEY WILL BE PENALIZED. ALSO, AFTER THE TRANSPOSOTION PERIOD OF THE DIRECTIVE, IT'S DIRECTLY APPLICABLE IN CASE NO NATIONAL LAW SERVING TO TRANSPOSE THE DIRECTIVE WAS PASSED. ERGO, WHAT THE CDU/CSU DID IS LEGALLY MEANINGLESS!!!

speedracr 13y ago

Incorrectness of linked article's headline was pointed out already. Also, this is not the "German Government", it's the CDU/CSU conservative party's election agenda. Yes, they are the party of the chancellor, but it's obvious that a whole ton of proposals buried in the election agenda never see the light of day despite the party winning a majority and having the Chancellor elect. So even IF the CDU/CSU decided to move away from data retention in their election agenda, it would remain to be seen if this translated into actual laws. And since they didn't even move away...

LinaLauneBaer 13y ago

Google's translation of the abstract is a bit off. It is missing an important sentence. Translation from Google: For years, the CDU and CSU have fought for the retention - now they want nothing more to know. Under the impact of the NSA spying scandal they replace the bad word in the election program. My translation: Election year in Germany: Horst Seehofer, leader of the CSU party has devoted himself to data privacy protection. He is even thinking about moving away from data detention to fight crimes. Leading interior politicians from the (much bigger) sister party (CDU) are irritated. The fact that many politicians from the bigger sister party is important IMHO. Without the CDU the CSU is just marginally above 5%. Of course it is somewhat surprising to see the CSU announcing this. The CSU is considered more pro surveillance and data retention than the CDU. The CSU can only be voted for in Bavaria. People in Bavaria tend to be more conservative. The CSU get usually more than 50% of the votes in Bavaria. The CDU can be voted for in every other state - except in Bavaria. The CDU and CSU form a "bigger party" and call themselves "Union". It is not seen as a much more volatile coalition between let's say the FDP and CDU/CSU. CDU/CSU win together and loose together.