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I think the simplest explanation is the one always ignored. Japan is a tough place to live and raise a family. It's super expensive, the economy has been in a

I think the simplest explanation is the one always ignored. Japan is a tough place to live and raise a family. It's super expensive, the economy has been in a funk for a long time, the work hours are widely known to be brutally long, people don't know anything but work and sleep over there. When one is confronted by this harsh reality, one wonders, what's the point? So they either commit suicide, which Japan ranks amongst the highest in the world, or they just withdraw from society. And look at Japan's demographic trends. It's like all of the young people just said to hell with it and are not procreating anymore. I don't blame them either. If all I had to look forward to in life is a meaningless existence of an 80 hr work week to support a small family, I would probably not even go there.

ekianjo 13y ago
I think you ignore the fact that parents accept the phenomenon and don't do anything about it. They let their children become apathetic and do not take action. I see that numerous times in Japan (I live here) where there is a clear detachment between family members and an agreement that they should not influence each other's lives.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  You mean family members actually respect each others' choices, even though they may seem dysfunctional? That sounds rather positive to me.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    It's more than dysfunctional, it's self destructive. If you stop going out completely you can't have a job and you can't ensure your subsistence later on in life either. That calls for action, in my watch, but I guess you can have a different point of view.
- omegant 13y ago
  Maybe they don't really know how to act about it. After all (and I am just guessing here) tradition doesn't teach how to help this people.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - brigade 13y ago
    I don't think any culture really teaches how to help shut-ins, at least once it becomes a legitimate mental health issue. In the western world, however, parents will very quickly make their newly reclusive child's life miserable (taking away TV, games, computers, etc.), and even kick adult children to the curb if they refuse to support themselves. And because this is done almost from the start, most kids aren't yet so far gone that they can still reintegrate into society themselves, if given enough incentive. So a lot of potential cases don't develop severe mental health issues like they would if left alone.
    - pessimizer 13y ago
      I think that's a bit of confirmation bias. Most healthy people who start becoming shut-ins get a bunch of chaotic interventions and ultimatums from family, so most of the people that you know of that ended up doing better after being shut-ins did so after a bunch of interventions. I feel that I've been like this at many times in my life, and it was only when people left me alone and just helped me by actually helping me that I got better. Sometimes I just need people to make sure that I eat, that I don't worry too much, and that I feel that there's a reason not to sleep all day. That people think that the only constructive help is an attacking kind of help, a kind of forceful removal of all supports to make the boat choose to float or sink, I think is a weird cultural thing. What if the boat has a hole in it? You might want to work on repairing that hole before removing the supports. It's telling that the usual metaphor for describing the ultimatum being given by the people who practice these aggressive interventions is "Sink or Swim." Don't be either too lazy to swim or too stupid to figure out how to swim. A boat with a hole in it, you coddle and fix. You can't incentivize a boat to be fixed, you fix it. Would you torture the flu out of people? Give people enough motivation by torture that they would force their immune system to attack the flu that much harder? Middle class people used to be sent to sanitariums when they locked themselves in rooms and stopped bathing - to rest out in a peaceful environment, in some fresh mountain/desert/forest air. Working people got sent to sanatoriums with cinder-block walls, and only after they actually fell physically sick. Has our society gotten productive and wealthy enough that we can bring back sanitariums?
- hrktb 13y ago
  It seems incredibly broken from the outside to have parents "play the game" (not that it's a fun game in any way), but compare it to other countries where kids in a dead end will: - kill themself or hurt themself repeatedly (the standard outcome) - do drugs - rampage at every occasion (british chavs ?) - kill others (eventually their bullies when they are bullied) - go to prison for a reason or another If the parents knew what to do or could do it they would try. Sometimes the parents themself are so broken mentally from the weight of the situation that they are in. I think you are spot on about the parents not engaging enough with their chldren until they reach this points. The guilt about their failure as parents is also a factor in letting the kid go hikikomori instead of forcing him into anther way.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    I don't know, it seems to me that in the Western world, parents try to talk to their kids, or try to go counselling or something. It does not always work but they are not usually passive about it. In Japan there is virtually no dialog - probably because there is so much respect for the "private sphere" of the individual. That's also why in Japan you never have "deep" discussions with anyone. All the stuff you talk with people is very, very superficial. Or maybe its just my impression.
beachstartup 13y ago
it's happening in the US as well. and lots of other developed countries. hell it's even happening in some cities in china.

ekianjo 13y ago

I think you ignore the fact that parents accept the phenomenon and don't do anything about it. They let their children become apathetic and do not take action. I see that numerous times in Japan (I live here) where there is a clear detachment between family members and an agreement that they should not influence each other's lives.

anigbrowl 13y ago
You mean family members actually respect each others' choices, even though they may seem dysfunctional? That sounds rather positive to me.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  It's more than dysfunctional, it's self destructive. If you stop going out completely you can't have a job and you can't ensure your subsistence later on in life either. That calls for action, in my watch, but I guess you can have a different point of view.
omegant 13y ago
Maybe they don't really know how to act about it. After all (and I am just guessing here) tradition doesn't teach how to help this people.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- brigade 13y ago
  I don't think any culture really teaches how to help shut-ins, at least once it becomes a legitimate mental health issue. In the western world, however, parents will very quickly make their newly reclusive child's life miserable (taking away TV, games, computers, etc.), and even kick adult children to the curb if they refuse to support themselves. And because this is done almost from the start, most kids aren't yet so far gone that they can still reintegrate into society themselves, if given enough incentive. So a lot of potential cases don't develop severe mental health issues like they would if left alone.
  - pessimizer 13y ago
    I think that's a bit of confirmation bias. Most healthy people who start becoming shut-ins get a bunch of chaotic interventions and ultimatums from family, so most of the people that you know of that ended up doing better after being shut-ins did so after a bunch of interventions. I feel that I've been like this at many times in my life, and it was only when people left me alone and just helped me by actually helping me that I got better. Sometimes I just need people to make sure that I eat, that I don't worry too much, and that I feel that there's a reason not to sleep all day. That people think that the only constructive help is an attacking kind of help, a kind of forceful removal of all supports to make the boat choose to float or sink, I think is a weird cultural thing. What if the boat has a hole in it? You might want to work on repairing that hole before removing the supports. It's telling that the usual metaphor for describing the ultimatum being given by the people who practice these aggressive interventions is "Sink or Swim." Don't be either too lazy to swim or too stupid to figure out how to swim. A boat with a hole in it, you coddle and fix. You can't incentivize a boat to be fixed, you fix it. Would you torture the flu out of people? Give people enough motivation by torture that they would force their immune system to attack the flu that much harder? Middle class people used to be sent to sanitariums when they locked themselves in rooms and stopped bathing - to rest out in a peaceful environment, in some fresh mountain/desert/forest air. Working people got sent to sanatoriums with cinder-block walls, and only after they actually fell physically sick. Has our society gotten productive and wealthy enough that we can bring back sanitariums?
hrktb 13y ago
It seems incredibly broken from the outside to have parents "play the game" (not that it's a fun game in any way), but compare it to other countries where kids in a dead end will: - kill themself or hurt themself repeatedly (the standard outcome) - do drugs - rampage at every occasion (british chavs ?) - kill others (eventually their bullies when they are bullied) - go to prison for a reason or another If the parents knew what to do or could do it they would try. Sometimes the parents themself are so broken mentally from the weight of the situation that they are in. I think you are spot on about the parents not engaging enough with their chldren until they reach this points. The guilt about their failure as parents is also a factor in letting the kid go hikikomori instead of forcing him into anther way.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  I don't know, it seems to me that in the Western world, parents try to talk to their kids, or try to go counselling or something. It does not always work but they are not usually passive about it. In Japan there is virtually no dialog - probably because there is so much respect for the "private sphere" of the individual. That's also why in Japan you never have "deep" discussions with anyone. All the stuff you talk with people is very, very superficial. Or maybe its just my impression.

beachstartup 13y ago

it's happening in the US as well. and lots of other developed countries. hell it's even happening in some cities in china.