10 ms·

I'd like to invest my time in your startup

42 points by monkeymeister 13y ago

monkeymeister 13y ago
I'm right here if anyone's got any ideas.
- wasd 13y ago
  I think this is an incredibly interesting idea but you did post this on American holiday where many people will be away from their PCs.
  - monkeymeister 13y ago
    Ah dammit. You crazy Americans! I will have to repost, but at the moment it's actually getting loads of interest, so maybe it's helped!
    - dyno12345 13y ago
      It's the day we celebrate leaving the British, if that's not ironic enough
      - agilebyte 13y ago
        Thank you for saying British and not English :). Have heard it a bit too often today.
- ScotterC 13y ago
  Please link to your individual products on http://www.40degreesnorth.co.uk/ http://www.40degreesnorth.co.uk/. It lists them but they're not links.
livestyle 13y ago
Are you looking at opportunties that have achieved product market fit or are you interested in MVP's as well?
- monkeymeister 13y ago
  Yup, I'd be interested in hearing about MVPs too.
  - livestyle 13y ago
    Whats a good email for you.
    - monkeymeister 13y ago
      ryan at 40degreesnorth dot co dot uk would be fine
      - sterlingross 13y ago
        it is actually .co.uk :)
        monkeymeister 13y ago
        Hah, cheers, edited :/
cleverjake 13y ago
Just a note >> I do have is 8 thumbs and 2 thumbs Not sure if that is a joke or a typo
- monkeymeister 13y ago
  Annnnd... that's what you get for writing late at night. Thanks.
knes 13y ago
Nothing to really add to the discussion but +1 for using Pusher for your realtime features! If you ever in London, come to our office and say hi!
bdcravens 13y ago
Handy to do the time zone translation, but keep in mind that there's 4 time zones here, so that's a 3 hour swing :-) I'm guessing you're assuming Pacific time - contrary to what HN might suggest, there ARE startups in the US that aren't in California. :-)
- monkeymeister 13y ago
  Ooops, I do apologise : ) Would the 3 hour extra timeframe work in our favour or against?
  - skue 13y ago
    You're 5 hours ahead of the east coast, 8 hours ahead of the west coast. Being available 1-6/7pm for the east coast seems fine. And as others have said - it's a great idea, especially given the shortage of technical talent. The biggest challenge I could see would be whether you can provide enough hours (value) for each startup, while simultaneously working with enough startups to give you the multiple pies you mentioned, and all this on top of a full time job. In any case good luck, and let us know how it goes!
Jhsto 13y ago
Smart idea. Those investors will surely sound good when pitching for funding later on.
cj 13y ago
Cool idea! I'd be down for a similar arrangement if anyone's interested UI, UX, design. Frontend developer, backbone experience. YC alum. SF bp@brandonpaton.com
hnrandom 13y ago
After 13 years working essentially 2 high paying jobs how do you not have thousands of pounds to invest in businesses?
- monkeymeister 13y ago
  Three words my friend. British. Mortgage. Rates. :)
janameri 13y ago
Sweat equity rising! Great! (Ps.I wish there was a video to demonstrate how Productiv.io works.)
tptacek 13y ago
Giving equity to contractors is a bad idea. Contractors can't vest, and you're effectively granting unlimited upside in exchange for the assumption of very, very little risk (he's literally promising "evenings and weekends" time) and the delivery of transactional services. A better plan for an offer like this is deferred compensation.
- monkeymeister 13y ago
  Of course there's risk - very large risk. The fact I'm willing to subscribe contractually to a minimum number of hours in return for a small percentage of what could potentially turn out to be nothing should the startup go belly up. That's the fun of it - I'm along for the ride - not looking to make a quick buck. That's why deferred compensation isn't of interest.
  - gfodor 13y ago
    People who work on their own startups on evenings and weekends aren't generally considered to be taking a very large risk. People who'd do contracting for equity in other startups where there is already some traction likely less so since there is more likelihood of those startups being successful. Also your post implies you are looking to do this for multiple startups. Not only does this kind of send a bad message that you'd not be that invested in a company you literally owned, but it also reduces your risk profile since you are trying to "diversify."
    - monkeymeister 13y ago
      Yes, this is a valid point. It will require management and careful planning on my side. By many pies, this will initially probably be around 1-2 maybe 3 projects, and I do have a lot of time / flexitime from work. If this begins to get traction, I would consider making this more of a full time thing.
    - ahk 13y ago
      Don't startup advisors like Tim Ferris do basically the same thing? Advice/market/time for a small amount of equity? The only difference here seems to be that it's developer skills instead.
gfodor 13y ago
I hate to be that guy, but part time, evenings and weekend only, remote workers who want equity and not hourly/project compensation are basically the exact opposite of the type of employment arrangement startup founders are probably interested in. I'd be happy to proven wrong but sounds like a pretty raw deal for founders, since this type of arrangement not only dilutes them or takes from the options pool (which, if they are funded, is a much bigger deal than paying the person) but also introduces all kinds of overhead and unnecessary pain in dealing with the logistics and lack of focus the employee will inevitably have. The only time this could be a good deal is if there was a real lack of engineering talent available for hire, so I guess if you consider startups outside of the talent hubs it could make sense. But even then, if the startup is considering remote workers, this is far less appealing than a full-time, M-F, salary based employee.
- monkeymeister 13y ago
  I think there's some valid points in there, though I think that the cost of hiring a full time employee is often beyond the budget of an early phase startup, especially when founders and initial owners have covered most of the early work and only require an on-demand ad-hoc technical assistance or advice to deliver and support the product in the end.
- macspoofing 13y ago
  >are basically the exact opposite of the type of employment arrangement startup founders are probably interested in. That all depends. For example, if I'm an average Joe with an idea for a web-app, I sure would like someone to build it for me for 10%-20% stake. Makes sense for me, not so much for the contractor. On the other hand, a mature startup with investors, option-pools, and technical talent, wouldn't really go for something like that. Too much hassle and not enough reward. Between those two extremes I'm sure there's some middle-ground where it makes sense for both parties.
- MortenK 13y ago
  "But even then, if the startup is considering remote workers, this is far less appealing than a full-time, M-F, salary based employee." That depends on who is managing the remote workers :-)
tvladeck 13y ago
I was initially very skeptical of this idea but then I thought: "Well, some of the money that investors would put into a startup would just go employees and other service providers - why not skip a step?" There are definitely alignment issues and other landmines that may make this a bad idea, but at the same time, the best way to find out what's wrong with this model, how it can be improved, or how it could work in some form, is to try it out. It'd be great if you posted a follow up in a month or two after you've gotten some traction.
fxtentacle 13y ago
In general, I like your idea :) and I've tried this route myself. Here's how it failed for me: Outside people can rarely judge the quality of your work. If you're willing to work for free, they'll assume that your work is worthless. At least I was treated quite bad by the startup that I tried to help...
clarky07 13y ago
This is an interesting idea. As posed though, I don't think it is workable. As noted other places in the thread, equity for contract dev work is pretty silly. Posed slightly differently though, he could be a technical co-founder for someone else who is also still working a day-job. Helping do bits of work for a "startup" with full-time founders does not deserve a large piece of equity. (I know the article said "small", but 8-18% as noted elsewhere in this thread by OP, is not in fact small.) Being a technical co-founder though would deserve this kind of equity or more, depending on how many people involved and what the work/money requirements were.
livestyle 13y ago
Part of why this is appealing for myself is that hint of a co-operative feel it has.

42 points by monkeymeister 13y ago

monkeymeister 13y ago

I'm right here if anyone's got any ideas.

wasd 13y ago
I think this is an incredibly interesting idea but you did post this on American holiday where many people will be away from their PCs.
- monkeymeister 13y ago
  Ah dammit. You crazy Americans! I will have to repost, but at the moment it's actually getting loads of interest, so maybe it's helped!
  - dyno12345 13y ago
    It's the day we celebrate leaving the British, if that's not ironic enough
    - agilebyte 13y ago
      Thank you for saying British and not English :). Have heard it a bit too often today.
ScotterC 13y ago
Please link to your individual products on http://www.40degreesnorth.co.uk/ http://www.40degreesnorth.co.uk/. It lists them but they're not links.

livestyle 13y ago

Are you looking at opportunties that have achieved product market fit or are you interested in MVP's as well?

monkeymeister 13y ago
Yup, I'd be interested in hearing about MVPs too.
- livestyle 13y ago
  Whats a good email for you.
  - monkeymeister 13y ago
    ryan at 40degreesnorth dot co dot uk would be fine
    - sterlingross 13y ago
      it is actually .co.uk :)
      - monkeymeister 13y ago
        Hah, cheers, edited :/

cleverjake 13y ago

Just a note >> I do have is 8 thumbs and 2 thumbs Not sure if that is a joke or a typo

monkeymeister 13y ago
Annnnd... that's what you get for writing late at night. Thanks.

knes 13y ago

Nothing to really add to the discussion but +1 for using Pusher for your realtime features! If you ever in London, come to our office and say hi!

bdcravens 13y ago

Handy to do the time zone translation, but keep in mind that there's 4 time zones here, so that's a 3 hour swing :-) I'm guessing you're assuming Pacific time - contrary to what HN might suggest, there ARE startups in the US that aren't in California. :-)

monkeymeister 13y ago
Ooops, I do apologise : ) Would the 3 hour extra timeframe work in our favour or against?
- skue 13y ago
  You're 5 hours ahead of the east coast, 8 hours ahead of the west coast. Being available 1-6/7pm for the east coast seems fine. And as others have said - it's a great idea, especially given the shortage of technical talent. The biggest challenge I could see would be whether you can provide enough hours (value) for each startup, while simultaneously working with enough startups to give you the multiple pies you mentioned, and all this on top of a full time job. In any case good luck, and let us know how it goes!

Jhsto 13y ago

Smart idea. Those investors will surely sound good when pitching for funding later on.

cj 13y ago

Cool idea! I'd be down for a similar arrangement if anyone's interested UI, UX, design. Frontend developer, backbone experience. YC alum. SF bp@brandonpaton.com

hnrandom 13y ago

After 13 years working essentially 2 high paying jobs how do you not have thousands of pounds to invest in businesses?

monkeymeister 13y ago
Three words my friend. British. Mortgage. Rates. :)

janameri 13y ago

Sweat equity rising! Great! (Ps.I wish there was a video to demonstrate how Productiv.io works.)

tptacek 13y ago

Giving equity to contractors is a bad idea. Contractors can't vest, and you're effectively granting unlimited upside in exchange for the assumption of very, very little risk (he's literally promising "evenings and weekends" time) and the delivery of transactional services. A better plan for an offer like this is deferred compensation.

monkeymeister 13y ago
Of course there's risk - very large risk. The fact I'm willing to subscribe contractually to a minimum number of hours in return for a small percentage of what could potentially turn out to be nothing should the startup go belly up. That's the fun of it - I'm along for the ride - not looking to make a quick buck. That's why deferred compensation isn't of interest.
- gfodor 13y ago
  People who work on their own startups on evenings and weekends aren't generally considered to be taking a very large risk. People who'd do contracting for equity in other startups where there is already some traction likely less so since there is more likelihood of those startups being successful. Also your post implies you are looking to do this for multiple startups. Not only does this kind of send a bad message that you'd not be that invested in a company you literally owned, but it also reduces your risk profile since you are trying to "diversify."
  - monkeymeister 13y ago
    Yes, this is a valid point. It will require management and careful planning on my side. By many pies, this will initially probably be around 1-2 maybe 3 projects, and I do have a lot of time / flexitime from work. If this begins to get traction, I would consider making this more of a full time thing.
  - ahk 13y ago
    Don't startup advisors like Tim Ferris do basically the same thing? Advice/market/time for a small amount of equity? The only difference here seems to be that it's developer skills instead.

gfodor 13y ago

I hate to be that guy, but part time, evenings and weekend only, remote workers who want equity and not hourly/project compensation are basically the exact opposite of the type of employment arrangement startup founders are probably interested in. I'd be happy to proven wrong but sounds like a pretty raw deal for founders, since this type of arrangement not only dilutes them or takes from the options pool (which, if they are funded, is a much bigger deal than paying the person) but also introduces all kinds of overhead and unnecessary pain in dealing with the logistics and lack of focus the employee will inevitably have. The only time this could be a good deal is if there was a real lack of engineering talent available for hire, so I guess if you consider startups outside of the talent hubs it could make sense. But even then, if the startup is considering remote workers, this is far less appealing than a full-time, M-F, salary based employee.

monkeymeister 13y ago
I think there's some valid points in there, though I think that the cost of hiring a full time employee is often beyond the budget of an early phase startup, especially when founders and initial owners have covered most of the early work and only require an on-demand ad-hoc technical assistance or advice to deliver and support the product in the end.
macspoofing 13y ago
>are basically the exact opposite of the type of employment arrangement startup founders are probably interested in. That all depends. For example, if I'm an average Joe with an idea for a web-app, I sure would like someone to build it for me for 10%-20% stake. Makes sense for me, not so much for the contractor. On the other hand, a mature startup with investors, option-pools, and technical talent, wouldn't really go for something like that. Too much hassle and not enough reward. Between those two extremes I'm sure there's some middle-ground where it makes sense for both parties.
MortenK 13y ago
"But even then, if the startup is considering remote workers, this is far less appealing than a full-time, M-F, salary based employee." That depends on who is managing the remote workers :-)

tvladeck 13y ago

I was initially very skeptical of this idea but then I thought: "Well, some of the money that investors would put into a startup would just go employees and other service providers - why not skip a step?" There are definitely alignment issues and other landmines that may make this a bad idea, but at the same time, the best way to find out what's wrong with this model, how it can be improved, or how it could work in some form, is to try it out. It'd be great if you posted a follow up in a month or two after you've gotten some traction.

fxtentacle 13y ago

In general, I like your idea :) and I've tried this route myself. Here's how it failed for me: Outside people can rarely judge the quality of your work. If you're willing to work for free, they'll assume that your work is worthless. At least I was treated quite bad by the startup that I tried to help...

clarky07 13y ago

This is an interesting idea. As posed though, I don't think it is workable. As noted other places in the thread, equity for contract dev work is pretty silly. Posed slightly differently though, he could be a technical co-founder for someone else who is also still working a day-job. Helping do bits of work for a "startup" with full-time founders does not deserve a large piece of equity. (I know the article said "small", but 8-18% as noted elsewhere in this thread by OP, is not in fact small.) Being a technical co-founder though would deserve this kind of equity or more, depending on how many people involved and what the work/money requirements were.

livestyle 13y ago

Part of why this is appealing for myself is that hint of a co-operative feel it has.