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There's something wrong with someone who doesn't want to get treated like shit? You're not helping your case. > What's needed is secure code to stop government

by ceol 13y ago

There's something wrong with someone who doesn't want to get treated like shit? You're not helping your case. > What's needed is secure code to stop governments from rounding up Syrian and Bahraini dissidents and drilling holes into their knees during interrogation because they were duped into trusting cryptocat while planning their democracy protests. Oh, get over yourself. We all know the vast majority of online cryptographic transmissions are for child pornography and drug purchases. Don't act like Syrian rebels actually use these technologies when most of them don't even have access to a computer, let alone the knowledge of how to use one. This is seriously the problem. You sit there and think modern cryptography is something other than a rich white guy's game, as though it's nothing but a Righteous Endeavor, so you get to treat other people like shit. The fact that the paragraph before that one is all about how you're getting drunk at some invite-only German hackathon is proof enough.

nekopa 13y ago
I understand your need to argue against a certain opinion, but I find it ironic that in a post where you use the term 'a rich white guy's game' you state that most people in Syria don't have access to a computer yet alone the knowledge how to use one. Yet a quick search shows Syria as 55th in the world with regards to Internet users - 5.4 million Internet users, or just over 24% of the population. Couple this with the fact that the government took Syria off of the global Internet, I think that maybe there is a solid use case for Syrians using strong crypto.
- ceol 13y ago
  In context, Syria has the third lowest internet penetration in the entire Middle East at 22.5%.[0] Considering there are only ~195 countries in the world, being #55 is pretty low. 5.4m is nothing to forget about, of course, but my original point was that most don't have access. The United States, on the other hand, has 78.1% penetration.[1] Obviously I'm not arguing that Syrians who have access to computers shouldn't get to use crypto, or that there has never been a Syrian who used crypto to aid in protest. But let's not act like crypto's main usage is as righteous as helping a rebellion against an oppressive regime. [0]: http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats5.htm http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats5.htm [1]: http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats14.htm http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats14.htm
  - DanBC 13y ago
    > But let's not act like crypto's main usage is as righteous as helping a rebellion against an oppressive regime. You realise that cryptocat isn't marketing itself as a chat client for paedophiles and drug users, but for activists in oppressive regimes, right? Here's one example from their blog: > In working with young and middle-aged professionals in the Middle East region, we have discovered that desktop OTR clients suffer from serious usability issues which are sometimes further exacerbated due to language differences and lack of cultural integration (the technology was frequently described as “foreign”). In one case, an activist who was fully trained to use Pidgin-OTR neglected to do so citing usability difficulties, and as a direct consequence encountered a life-threatening situation at the hands of a national military in the Middle East and North Africa region. That's why people keep talking about the risk from foreign governments - because the cryptocat hype keeps mentioning governments.
    - ceol 13y ago
      dobbsbob's post was not concentrating on Cryptocat. It was talking about all crypto projects. This is the entire block: > Almost all security/crypto projects are open source. There's no money involved, therefore no corporate sensitivity training or social skills needed. What's needed is secure code to stop governments from rounding up Syrian and Bahraini dissidents and drilling holes into their knees during interrogation because they were duped into trusting cryptocat while planning their democracy protests.
unethical_ban 13y ago
Ooooo, yea, you lost me when you attacked cryptography instead of sticking to the "spade is a spade" argument against being a dick online.
csoghoian 13y ago
If Syrian rebels aren't using computers, why would pro-government forces bother to send them malware? See: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/12/iinternet-back-in-syria-so-is-malware https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/12/iinternet-back-in-syri... Your unsupported claim that the "majority of cryptographic transmissions are for child pornography and drug purchases" is insanely wrong. Given the default use of HTTPS by Google, Hotmail (Live.com), Twitter and most recently Facebook, it is almost certain that the legitimate traffic to/from those sites vastly outnumbers, by several orders of magnitude, whatever encrypted data is sent by folks exchanging child pornography images or buying drugs via silk road. You don't know what you're talking about.
dobbsbob 13y ago
You are exactly the kind of self absorbed, reckless person crypto projects want to weed out, so it's great you take criticism personally and run off crying. No amount of hand holding or spoon feeding will make you understand it's importance so the tried and true method of removing clueless, poisonous (and in your case dangerous due to your prejudice) time wasters via deflating their ego has been vindicated and you are the proof why it still works. The farther a fragile basketcase like you is kept away from critical protocols the better off humanity is.
- DanBC 13y ago
  Please, comments like this are not welcome on HN. Your comment is needlessly derisive and personal.
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  From the guidelines: > Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation. This was uncivil. I doubt you would say that to his face. Comments like this are likely to get flagged, and if it happens enough, your account will get banned. It doesn't matter how good of a programmer you are, or how impolite RMS and Theo are.
- RegEx 13y ago
  You are exactly the kind of programmer I hope I never become. But I would like to thank you for this content! I'm saving this series of comments from you - when I become a CS professor at some small community college, I want to warn my students what they can become if they aren't careful.
  - dobbsbob 13y ago
    I guess you failed to read the part where I was responding to somebody who basically said Syrians are too inferior to use computers, and that cryptography was only used by criminals. You are exactly the kind of CS professor I'm glad I never had. You failed to read everything and care more about politics than quality of code and safety of users (k now im just trolling, sorry but read the actual replies)

by ceol 13y ago

nekopa 13y ago

I understand your need to argue against a certain opinion, but I find it ironic that in a post where you use the term 'a rich white guy's game' you state that most people in Syria don't have access to a computer yet alone the knowledge how to use one. Yet a quick search shows Syria as 55th in the world with regards to Internet users - 5.4 million Internet users, or just over 24% of the population. Couple this with the fact that the government took Syria off of the global Internet, I think that maybe there is a solid use case for Syrians using strong crypto.

ceol 13y ago
In context, Syria has the third lowest internet penetration in the entire Middle East at 22.5%.[0] Considering there are only ~195 countries in the world, being #55 is pretty low. 5.4m is nothing to forget about, of course, but my original point was that most don't have access. The United States, on the other hand, has 78.1% penetration.[1] Obviously I'm not arguing that Syrians who have access to computers shouldn't get to use crypto, or that there has never been a Syrian who used crypto to aid in protest. But let's not act like crypto's main usage is as righteous as helping a rebellion against an oppressive regime. [0]: http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats5.htm http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats5.htm [1]: http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats14.htm http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats14.htm
- DanBC 13y ago
  > But let's not act like crypto's main usage is as righteous as helping a rebellion against an oppressive regime. You realise that cryptocat isn't marketing itself as a chat client for paedophiles and drug users, but for activists in oppressive regimes, right? Here's one example from their blog: > In working with young and middle-aged professionals in the Middle East region, we have discovered that desktop OTR clients suffer from serious usability issues which are sometimes further exacerbated due to language differences and lack of cultural integration (the technology was frequently described as “foreign”). In one case, an activist who was fully trained to use Pidgin-OTR neglected to do so citing usability difficulties, and as a direct consequence encountered a life-threatening situation at the hands of a national military in the Middle East and North Africa region. That's why people keep talking about the risk from foreign governments - because the cryptocat hype keeps mentioning governments.
  - ceol 13y ago
    dobbsbob's post was not concentrating on Cryptocat. It was talking about all crypto projects. This is the entire block: > Almost all security/crypto projects are open source. There's no money involved, therefore no corporate sensitivity training or social skills needed. What's needed is secure code to stop governments from rounding up Syrian and Bahraini dissidents and drilling holes into their knees during interrogation because they were duped into trusting cryptocat while planning their democracy protests.

unethical_ban 13y ago

Ooooo, yea, you lost me when you attacked cryptography instead of sticking to the "spade is a spade" argument against being a dick online.

csoghoian 13y ago

If Syrian rebels aren't using computers, why would pro-government forces bother to send them malware? See: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/12/iinternet-back-in-syria-so-is-malware https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/12/iinternet-back-in-syri... Your unsupported claim that the "majority of cryptographic transmissions are for child pornography and drug purchases" is insanely wrong. Given the default use of HTTPS by Google, Hotmail (Live.com), Twitter and most recently Facebook, it is almost certain that the legitimate traffic to/from those sites vastly outnumbers, by several orders of magnitude, whatever encrypted data is sent by folks exchanging child pornography images or buying drugs via silk road. You don't know what you're talking about.

dobbsbob 13y ago

You are exactly the kind of self absorbed, reckless person crypto projects want to weed out, so it's great you take criticism personally and run off crying. No amount of hand holding or spoon feeding will make you understand it's importance so the tried and true method of removing clueless, poisonous (and in your case dangerous due to your prejudice) time wasters via deflating their ego has been vindicated and you are the proof why it still works. The farther a fragile basketcase like you is kept away from critical protocols the better off humanity is.

DanBC 13y ago
Please, comments like this are not welcome on HN. Your comment is needlessly derisive and personal.
foobarbazqux 13y ago
From the guidelines: > Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation. This was uncivil. I doubt you would say that to his face. Comments like this are likely to get flagged, and if it happens enough, your account will get banned. It doesn't matter how good of a programmer you are, or how impolite RMS and Theo are.
RegEx 13y ago
You are exactly the kind of programmer I hope I never become. But I would like to thank you for this content! I'm saving this series of comments from you - when I become a CS professor at some small community college, I want to warn my students what they can become if they aren't careful.
- dobbsbob 13y ago
  I guess you failed to read the part where I was responding to somebody who basically said Syrians are too inferior to use computers, and that cryptography was only used by criminals. You are exactly the kind of CS professor I'm glad I never had. You failed to read everything and care more about politics than quality of code and safety of users (k now im just trolling, sorry but read the actual replies)