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This is my first protest. I shared my reasoning for that here with HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5991332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5991332

This is my first protest. I shared my reasoning for that here with HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5991332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5991332 I really encourage you to go, even for an hour. If you can't make it but agree in principle, then discuss it with your friends and family at their BBQ, before fireworks, or whatever you're doing to celebrate today. You don't need heated discussion. Just share what you think and why you think it. I think you'll be surprised how many minds can change by simply talking. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow. But eventually.

MarcScott 13y ago
I live in th UK so can't physically participate, but you have mine and many other Brit's support on this issue. If nothing's changed by November then I'll be suggesting similar protests over here, all on the 5th.
- devonbarrett 13y ago
  I'll be with you on that one.
  - triplesec 13y ago
    let's get a website started
    - devonbarrett 13y ago
      Shoot me an email!
dfc 13y ago
Thank you for your service, in uniform and in civies.
- frou_dh 13y ago
  Not questioning the sentiment, but I'm freaked out by how that _exact_ phrase (TYFYS) seems to be so reflexive to American military presence, at least online. Where did it come from?
  - quasque 13y ago
    I guess it's just a memetic artefact of the blind worship many people have for the military. Personally I find the phrase trite and somewhat distasteful.
  - dfc 13y ago
    I remember seeing something by Professor Lembecke about the origin of the phrase but I can not find it at the moment. Addendum: I looked a little more I cannot find the reference. I think it was probably in The Spitting Image. I also would like to thank you for not commenting on the sentiment. In my opinion the phrase has a large personal component and it is impossible for a complete stranger to form a well reasoned opinion on the authenticity of the sentiment.
    - frou_dh 13y ago
      Thanks - That's an intriguing book tip.
physcab 13y ago
> Do you want to give the government free reign on all your data? For some reason, I just don't feel passionately about this issue. I could be in the minority, but to me, our society has become very desensitized by sharing with Facebook leading the charge. This is a new reality and I don't think it's such a bad thing that warrants a protest, though I respect those who feel differently. Our government having the ability to track me has only led to benefits in my life including: * Being able to retrieve a stolen car * Not being blown up by terrorists * Practice any religion I choose * Fly safely between 5 states and 5 different countries * Drive hundreds even thousands of miles safely * Buy and sell what I please, without fear of jail So yes, if it means I am kept safe and if it means society as a whole can operate more openly, then the government can do what they want with my call data, car location and speed records, buying history, surfing history, etc
- SapphireSun 13y ago
  Only one of those is even possibly linked to the government's ability to track you (the car). The others are completely nebulous, and are made safe simply by having police present or through routine investigative powers. They don't need to know your intimate details. The last one you mentioned is actually the opposite. You can accidentally trip over a law you weren't aware of. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
- davidp 13y ago
  When you're in business or divorce negotiations and your adversary "knows a guy" who can track your movement and communications, you won't fare very well. Someone who secretly has access to Warren Buffett's movements and communications could get a jump on the market, stealing a little bit from all the honest players. If you're protesting the government's eminent domain seizure of your home, but you only have enough money to pay the lawyers for another couple of months, the government can just wait you out. They'll be able to figure it out just by looking at the outside of the bill collection notices sent to your home, and the fact that you sent email to several lawyers who are known to work pro bono. The problem is that the mere existence of this kind of information will draw the corrupt among us like flies to a corpse. I'm not all that concerned about the personal motivations of the people who currently have access to that information, although power does corrupt. I'm more concerned about people who will start working for those agencies because they're intrigued by the possibilities. If the information must be gathered, then it is essential that it be a really big deal for any analyst to get access to someone's communication metadata and movements. High visibility, court oversight, logging and review, the works. Side note: I went to the Austin Restore the Fourth rally today; couple hundred people I'd guess, mostly middle-class-looking. Pleasant energy. It's hard to tell whether that's enough of an indicator to make politicians start wondering about their campaign pocketbooks; I'm not optimistic.
a3n 13y ago
This was also my first protest. I'm in my late fifties. I joined the Navy in 1975, for six years. In joining, I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, and I consider my attendance at the Denver protest to be in support of that oath. I think everyone who participates in this unconstitutional surveillance, and whoever approved it, willfully ignored it or bent the law to support it, should be taken out back and prosecuted.

MarcScott 13y ago

I live in th UK so can't physically participate, but you have mine and many other Brit's support on this issue. If nothing's changed by November then I'll be suggesting similar protests over here, all on the 5th.

devonbarrett 13y ago
I'll be with you on that one.
- triplesec 13y ago
  let's get a website started
  - devonbarrett 13y ago
    Shoot me an email!

dfc 13y ago

Thank you for your service, in uniform and in civies.

frou_dh 13y ago
Not questioning the sentiment, but I'm freaked out by how that _exact_ phrase (TYFYS) seems to be so reflexive to American military presence, at least online. Where did it come from?
- quasque 13y ago
  I guess it's just a memetic artefact of the blind worship many people have for the military. Personally I find the phrase trite and somewhat distasteful.
- dfc 13y ago
  I remember seeing something by Professor Lembecke about the origin of the phrase but I can not find it at the moment. Addendum: I looked a little more I cannot find the reference. I think it was probably in The Spitting Image. I also would like to thank you for not commenting on the sentiment. In my opinion the phrase has a large personal component and it is impossible for a complete stranger to form a well reasoned opinion on the authenticity of the sentiment.
  - frou_dh 13y ago
    Thanks - That's an intriguing book tip.

physcab 13y ago

> Do you want to give the government free reign on all your data? For some reason, I just don't feel passionately about this issue. I could be in the minority, but to me, our society has become very desensitized by sharing with Facebook leading the charge. This is a new reality and I don't think it's such a bad thing that warrants a protest, though I respect those who feel differently. Our government having the ability to track me has only led to benefits in my life including: * Being able to retrieve a stolen car * Not being blown up by terrorists * Practice any religion I choose * Fly safely between 5 states and 5 different countries * Drive hundreds even thousands of miles safely * Buy and sell what I please, without fear of jail So yes, if it means I am kept safe and if it means society as a whole can operate more openly, then the government can do what they want with my call data, car location and speed records, buying history, surfing history, etc

SapphireSun 13y ago
Only one of those is even possibly linked to the government's ability to track you (the car). The others are completely nebulous, and are made safe simply by having police present or through routine investigative powers. They don't need to know your intimate details. The last one you mentioned is actually the opposite. You can accidentally trip over a law you weren't aware of. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
davidp 13y ago
When you're in business or divorce negotiations and your adversary "knows a guy" who can track your movement and communications, you won't fare very well. Someone who secretly has access to Warren Buffett's movements and communications could get a jump on the market, stealing a little bit from all the honest players. If you're protesting the government's eminent domain seizure of your home, but you only have enough money to pay the lawyers for another couple of months, the government can just wait you out. They'll be able to figure it out just by looking at the outside of the bill collection notices sent to your home, and the fact that you sent email to several lawyers who are known to work pro bono. The problem is that the mere existence of this kind of information will draw the corrupt among us like flies to a corpse. I'm not all that concerned about the personal motivations of the people who currently have access to that information, although power does corrupt. I'm more concerned about people who will start working for those agencies because they're intrigued by the possibilities. If the information must be gathered, then it is essential that it be a really big deal for any analyst to get access to someone's communication metadata and movements. High visibility, court oversight, logging and review, the works. Side note: I went to the Austin Restore the Fourth rally today; couple hundred people I'd guess, mostly middle-class-looking. Pleasant energy. It's hard to tell whether that's enough of an indicator to make politicians start wondering about their campaign pocketbooks; I'm not optimistic.

a3n 13y ago

This was also my first protest. I'm in my late fifties. I joined the Navy in 1975, for six years. In joining, I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, and I consider my attendance at the Denver protest to be in support of that oath. I think everyone who participates in this unconstitutional surveillance, and whoever approved it, willfully ignored it or bent the law to support it, should be taken out back and prosecuted.