6 ms·

It's relieving that Iceland is the only country with any balls left for civil liberty, and all those that complained about the NSA spying but then refused Snowd

by kunai 13y ago

It's relieving that Iceland is the only country with any balls left for civil liberty, and all those that complained about the NSA spying but then refused Snowden asylum should be ashamed of their actions. It's an international embarrassment. Also quite ironic this happens on the Fourth. As I type this, I breathe an immense sigh of relief. It's odd that Snowden, a man I hardly know, influences me that much. It's the feeling I get when I think of the founding fathers and their sacrifice and how it paid off after a long and difficult struggle. I don't know if it will pay off for the United States, but bravo to Snowden for standing up and doing something apart from signing online "petitions."

arethuza 13y ago
How likely is this to be passed? I would imagine that there will be a fair amount of influence exerted in the direction of Reykjavik to make sure this doesn't pass. Actually, it would be fascinating to see the records of the incoming calls to the leaders of the Icelandic government - I wonder who could help with that? ;-)
- hugi 13y ago
  There's zero chance this will pass. We currently have a right wing majority in parliament in Iceland, and they're not keen on issues of civil liberty. Head of one of the ruling parties said last week that "Snowden is going to go to the back of the citizenship line like everyone else". Sorry.
  - orn 13y ago
    Here is another story about it http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=is&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvisir.is%2Fsnowden-frumvarp-lagt-fram-a-althingi%2Farticle%2F2013130709573 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=is&tl=en&u=ht...
  - runarberg 13y ago
    Well, there might be 0.1% chance. I mean, Framsóknarflokkurinn just supported the new constitution, a bill put forward by the Leftist Green. They might yet surprise us.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    What they could do is send out a letter to all the people at the front of the citizenship line and ask if anyone is willing to trade places with him. If I were waiting at the front of the line I would gladly switch places with him. I'm sure they can find someone.
- klausjensen 13y ago
  Exactly as hugi said. Not going to happen.
- mgkimsal 13y ago
  They can always threaten another volcanic eruption if the US starts to get too pushy.
  - krapp 13y ago
    If they can follow through on that threat, that would be impressive.
zaidmo 13y ago
Hope it passes. Edward is almost like a refugee (Palestinian or Syrian) - forced to leave his country, can't go back home, and no other country will accept him. Perhaps he should head for and remain on a vessel in International Waters?
- TheSilentMan 13y ago
  Where the US could take him by force without violating another nation's sovereignty? I don't think that would be a very good plan.
rimantas 13y ago
We have a street name after Iceland in our capital. The reason: Iceland was the first western country to recognize the restoration of the independance of Lithuania. It took some balls 22 years ago, maybe they still have them :)
- pilsetnieks 13y ago
  To be fair, though, the US never recognized the Baltic States incorporation into the USSR, neither de jure, nor de facto, therefore they had no restoration of independence to recognize. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_continuity_of_the_Baltic_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_continuity_of_the_Baltic...
  - mietek 13y ago
    Contrast with the aftermath of Yalta and Roosevelt's confidence in Stalin keeping his promises. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_conference#Poland_and_the_Eastern_Bloc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_conference#Poland_and_th...
- Svip 13y ago
  Not really. As the USSR was collapsing and the Baltic countries broke free, Western countries rushed to re-recognise them (as most have de jure not recognised the occupation of the Baltic states). It did not take 24 hours after Iceland recognised the Baltic states, that Denmark did as well. Furthermore, Denmark, along with Sweden and Norway spend the years following the dissolution of the USSR financially helping the Baltic states, something Iceland did not do (although, in their defence, they probably could not afford it either at that time). Here is an amusing piece of history that President Bush did not want to recognise the Baltic states just yet: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-08-27/news/9103030992_1_baltic-states-lithuania-and-estonia-mulroney http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-08-27/news/910303099...
  - rimantas 13y ago
    Actually it took Denmark a bit more than two weeks to do the same, but you are right, they there second after Iceland. That was February 1991. Most of the other countries only "rushed" at the end of the summer after events in Moscow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_coup_d'état_attempt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_coup_d'état_attemp... The part about help is true (though I heard a very pragmatic reason for it: "the better you live in your country, the less you will be likely to come to our". Not sure if working.)
dfc 13y ago
Is there any indication that Snowden wants to renounce his US citizenship? Side Bar: I miss the days when irony conveyed more than trivial oddity. In common parlance irony is coming close to being as meaningless as "random."
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  I don't think you generally need to renounce one citizenship for another - I have dual citizenship, for example, and it's never caused anyone a problem.
  - embolism 13y ago
    It depends on the rules of both countries.
  - dfc 13y ago
    This is certainly not a general situation. I thought that this is one of those situations that would mean a loss of citizenship but after reading some more I am utterly confused about the specific situation and dual-citizenship in general. Dual citizenship:: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html Advice about possible loss of dual citizenship: http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html WP's take: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      It's actually not confusing, you just have to ignore the statutes and State Department, because they don't control. Case law does. The Supreme Court made a constitutional ruling (meaning it can't be overturned except by constitutional amendment; Congress and the Executive are powerless to change it themselves) in 1967 that US citizenship cannot be lost involuntarily. http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2521246303796542623&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2521246303796542... "The very nature of our free government makes it completely incongruous to have a rule of law under which a group of citizens temporarily in office can deprive another group of citizens of their citizenship. We hold that the Fourteenth Amendment was designed to, and does, protect every citizen of this Nation against a congressional forcible destruction of his citizenship, whatever his creed, color, or race. Our holding does no more than to give to this citizen that which is his own, a constitutional right to remain a citizen in a free country unless he voluntarily relinquishes that citizenship."
arnarbi 13y ago
Icelander here. Hold on to the praise for the moment. The bill may not even be discussed before the parliament is adjourned for summer holidays later tonight. So far it is not even on the agenda: http://www.althingi.is/cache.html#þingfundur http://www.althingi.is/cache.html#þingfundur

by kunai 13y ago

arethuza 13y ago

How likely is this to be passed? I would imagine that there will be a fair amount of influence exerted in the direction of Reykjavik to make sure this doesn't pass. Actually, it would be fascinating to see the records of the incoming calls to the leaders of the Icelandic government - I wonder who could help with that? ;-)

hugi 13y ago
There's zero chance this will pass. We currently have a right wing majority in parliament in Iceland, and they're not keen on issues of civil liberty. Head of one of the ruling parties said last week that "Snowden is going to go to the back of the citizenship line like everyone else". Sorry.
- orn 13y ago
  Here is another story about it http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=is&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvisir.is%2Fsnowden-frumvarp-lagt-fram-a-althingi%2Farticle%2F2013130709573 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=is&tl=en&u=ht...
- runarberg 13y ago
  Well, there might be 0.1% chance. I mean, Framsóknarflokkurinn just supported the new constitution, a bill put forward by the Leftist Green. They might yet surprise us.
- malandrew 13y ago
  What they could do is send out a letter to all the people at the front of the citizenship line and ask if anyone is willing to trade places with him. If I were waiting at the front of the line I would gladly switch places with him. I'm sure they can find someone.
klausjensen 13y ago
Exactly as hugi said. Not going to happen.
mgkimsal 13y ago
They can always threaten another volcanic eruption if the US starts to get too pushy.
- krapp 13y ago
  If they can follow through on that threat, that would be impressive.

zaidmo 13y ago

Hope it passes. Edward is almost like a refugee (Palestinian or Syrian) - forced to leave his country, can't go back home, and no other country will accept him. Perhaps he should head for and remain on a vessel in International Waters?

TheSilentMan 13y ago
Where the US could take him by force without violating another nation's sovereignty? I don't think that would be a very good plan.

rimantas 13y ago

We have a street name after Iceland in our capital. The reason: Iceland was the first western country to recognize the restoration of the independance of Lithuania. It took some balls 22 years ago, maybe they still have them :)

pilsetnieks 13y ago
To be fair, though, the US never recognized the Baltic States incorporation into the USSR, neither de jure, nor de facto, therefore they had no restoration of independence to recognize. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_continuity_of_the_Baltic_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_continuity_of_the_Baltic...
- mietek 13y ago
  Contrast with the aftermath of Yalta and Roosevelt's confidence in Stalin keeping his promises. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_conference#Poland_and_the_Eastern_Bloc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_conference#Poland_and_th...
Svip 13y ago
Not really. As the USSR was collapsing and the Baltic countries broke free, Western countries rushed to re-recognise them (as most have de jure not recognised the occupation of the Baltic states). It did not take 24 hours after Iceland recognised the Baltic states, that Denmark did as well. Furthermore, Denmark, along with Sweden and Norway spend the years following the dissolution of the USSR financially helping the Baltic states, something Iceland did not do (although, in their defence, they probably could not afford it either at that time). Here is an amusing piece of history that President Bush did not want to recognise the Baltic states just yet: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-08-27/news/9103030992_1_baltic-states-lithuania-and-estonia-mulroney http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-08-27/news/910303099...
- rimantas 13y ago
  Actually it took Denmark a bit more than two weeks to do the same, but you are right, they there second after Iceland. That was February 1991. Most of the other countries only "rushed" at the end of the summer after events in Moscow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_coup_d'état_attempt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_coup_d'état_attemp... The part about help is true (though I heard a very pragmatic reason for it: "the better you live in your country, the less you will be likely to come to our". Not sure if working.)

dfc 13y ago

Is there any indication that Snowden wants to renounce his US citizenship? Side Bar: I miss the days when irony conveyed more than trivial oddity. In common parlance irony is coming close to being as meaningless as "random."

tehwalrus 13y ago
I don't think you generally need to renounce one citizenship for another - I have dual citizenship, for example, and it's never caused anyone a problem.
- embolism 13y ago
  It depends on the rules of both countries.
- dfc 13y ago
  This is certainly not a general situation. I thought that this is one of those situations that would mean a loss of citizenship but after reading some more I am utterly confused about the specific situation and dual-citizenship in general. Dual citizenship:: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html Advice about possible loss of dual citizenship: http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html WP's take: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    It's actually not confusing, you just have to ignore the statutes and State Department, because they don't control. Case law does. The Supreme Court made a constitutional ruling (meaning it can't be overturned except by constitutional amendment; Congress and the Executive are powerless to change it themselves) in 1967 that US citizenship cannot be lost involuntarily. http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2521246303796542623&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2521246303796542... "The very nature of our free government makes it completely incongruous to have a rule of law under which a group of citizens temporarily in office can deprive another group of citizens of their citizenship. We hold that the Fourteenth Amendment was designed to, and does, protect every citizen of this Nation against a congressional forcible destruction of his citizenship, whatever his creed, color, or race. Our holding does no more than to give to this citizen that which is his own, a constitutional right to remain a citizen in a free country unless he voluntarily relinquishes that citizenship."

arnarbi 13y ago

Icelander here. Hold on to the praise for the moment. The bill may not even be discussed before the parliament is adjourned for summer holidays later tonight. So far it is not even on the agenda: http://www.althingi.is/cache.html#þingfundur http://www.althingi.is/cache.html#þingfundur